God is Corporeal Spirit John 4:24

John 4:24  "God is spirit; and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth" (RSV) 

PROBLEM: This verse is quoted to show that God is not tangible.

Most people misunderstand this verse and assume or declare that Spiritual beings are immaterial.

SOLUTION: Jesus is not saying that God is immaterial

Jesus is concerned with redemption and worship that is acceptable not with a description of whether God is tangible or not. cf. v.7 - 23.

It is in the framework of this purpose that men must worship the Father4. Jesus was teaching the woman that in the redemption he had brought, he had living waters5 to offer so that they could worship God "in spirit".

4 "To be spiritually minded is life". (Rom. 8:6).

5 the teaching of the Spirit (i.e. Word of God) (cf. v.14).

The verse does not say that we must have received some divine effluent from God into our hearts before we can worship correctly. The context shows that: 

correct knowledge ("in truth") is one necessity, "salvation is of the Jews". (v. 22). 

attitude of mind ("in spirit" i.e. sincerity, Josh. 24:14) is the other necessity6. 

"Ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father." (v. 21). 

6) It was not where the worship occurred (empty tradition or letter) that mattered but the attitude of the worshipper that mattered i.e. a positive response showing love and zeal for the truth. cf. 2 Cor. 3:5, 6.

God is Corporeal

"We should not assume that anything we cannot see or hear or touch is by nature, by its basic character, silent, immaterial or invisible. We cannot see God who is Spirit. We cannot, today, see angels who are spirits. We hear no voice from heaven. Yet we know that some men heard, saw and touched things which are eternal, things which may be described as eternal." 2

Stephen saw the "heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God",3 Acts 7:56 while those around saw nothing. So we cannot argue that God, Jesus and the angels are immaterial because we by our limited senses cannot see or touch them.4

Angels appeared as ordinary men to Abraham ("three men stood by Him", Gen.18:2).

In the future the "inhabitants of Jerusalem ... shall look upon me (Jesus) whom they have pierced". (Zech. 12:10). They will say unto him, "What are these wounds in thine hands?" 

That conception of God which thinks of Him as mere abstract power, intangible, universal, without person or locality is not true. We cannot worship abstract universal power and claim we worship God.

The phrase "God is Spirit" is sometimes offered as evidence that He is immaterial but Jesus (whom we know to be a corporeal being) is called the Lord the Spirit in 2 Cor. 3:17,18. "He is now no longer flesh and blood; but Holy Spirit Nature a flesh and bones embodiment of Spirit."

Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.” (John 20:27).

"And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish,....and he (Jesus) took it, and did eat before them" (Luke 24:43).

Dr. Thomas’ comments as follows: 

"The spiritual body is constituted of flesh and bones energized by the spirit. This appears from the testimony concerning Jesus. On a certain occasion, he unexpectedly stood in the midst of his disciples, at which they were exceedingly alarmed, supposing they beheld a spirit, or ghost, as at a former time. But, that they might be assured that it was really he himself, he invited them to handle him, and examine his hands and feet: "For", said he, "a spirit hath not flesh and bones as ye see me have". He gave them further proof by eating a piece of fish and. Thomas placed his hand into his side, and was convinced that he was the same who had been crucified. What stronger proof can we need of this that the spiritual body is corporeal and tangible in nature? It is the animal body purified, not evaporated into gas, or vapour. It is a bloodless body; for in the case of Jesus he had poured out his blood on the cross. The life of the animal body is in the blood: but not so that of the spiritual body: the life of this resides with the Father." (Elpis Israel)

Since Jesus has flesh and bones it seems inconsistent that his Father would not. The writer to the Hebrews says that Christ was "the very image of his substance"

The angels are "ministering spirits" but they were seen by men many times.

Many passages in scripture show that God is corporeal and shares emotions that we do:

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness." (Gen. l:26).

"God created man, in the likeness10 of God made he him" (Gen. 5:1, 3).

"He that sitteth in the heaven shall laugh" (Psa. 2:4).

"Hide not thy face . . . incline thine ear unto me" (Psa. 102:2).

"He hath looked down from the height of His sanctuary" (Psa. 102:19).

" ... sat on the right hand of God" (Mark 16:19).

"Man... is the image ... of God" (1 Cor. 11:7).

"Christ, who is the image of God"11 (2 Cor. 4:4).

"Men, which are after the similitude of God" (James 3:9).

Jesus is not saying that God is immaterial nor is he just referring to the nature of God, but is stating that God is acting in a specific manner for the redemption of man, as he once acted in the past. 

We should continually remember that to Israel God was Spirit, an Angel bearing His Name. This statement can be verified by an analysis of Isaiah 48:16, 17, 20.
"The Lord Yahweh, and his Spirit hath sent me. Thus saith Yahweh, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am Yahweh thy God ... which leadeth thee the way that thou shouldest go."

Note that the Spirit is "the Holy One of Israel".

In this Spirit activity of redemption, there was to be corresponding spirit in their worship.

So if God is spirit - and the Bible emphatically declares this truth - it does not mean that he does not have material form! It is consistent to say that God, *in the sense of an individual person* has a body of spirit

The fact that Israel believed God has a human form is quite clear from Gen 1:26 where God makes man in their image (demut), and their likeness (tselem). That this image and likeness refers to *genetic* resemblance is made clear from Gen 5:1,3 where Adam begets a son after his own likeness (tselem) after his image (demut) and called his name Seth.

Notice that "Adam begat a son in his likeness, after his image." If this language is understood, then surely it can be seen that we are created in the image of God even as Jesus was the express image of Him. 

If we are to be one with God even as Jesus is one with the Father (John 17:22) then we must be physically and morally like Jesus was after his glorification. 

2nd Century Understanding 

Also for early Christians like Origen, Heracleon, and Theodotus understood God to be Corporeal:

Heracleon understands this verse to refer to the nature of worship and not the nature of God:

Fragment 24, on John 4:24 (In John 4:24a, it says,) “God is spirit.” Undefiled, pure, and invisible is his divine nature. (In John 4:24b, it says,) “Those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth." Worthily of the one who is worshipped, in a spiritual, not a fleshly fashion.....and they worship in truth, not in error, as the Apostle teaches when he calls this kind of piety “ a rational service.” (Romans 12:2) (Heracleon: Fragments from his Commentary on the Gospel of John)

Theodotus understood the spirit world to have shape and body: 

10 But neither the spiritual nor the intellectual things, nor the archangels <and> those created first, nor even he is shapeless and formless and figureless and incorporeal, but he also has his own shape and body proportionate to his superiority over all spiritual things, just as also those created first (have their own shape and body) proportionate to their superiority over the beings beneath them.

For in general what has come to be is not without substance, but unlike the bodies in this world, they have form and body. For male and female here differ from each other, but there the Only-Begotten and uniquely intellectual one has been furnished with his own form and substance that is utterly pure and sovereign, and he has the immediate benefit of the Father’s power. The ones created first, even if in number they are distinct and each is bounded and delineated, in any case the likeness of their deeds demonstrates their unity, equality, and likeness. (Extracts from the Works of Theodotus)

14 The demons are said to be incorporeal, not because they have no bodies (for they have even shape and are, therefore, capable of feeling punishment), but they are said to be incorporeal because, in comparison with the spiritual bodies which are saved, they are a shade. And the angels are bodies; at any rate they are seen. Why even the soul is a body, for the Apostle says, “It is sown a body of soul, it is raised a body of spirit.” And how can the souls which are being punished be sensible of it, if they are not bodies? Certainly he says, “Fear him who, after death, is able to cast soul and body into hell.” Now that which is visible is not purged by fire, but is dissolved into dust. But, from the story of Lazarus and Dives, the soul is directly shown by its possession of bodily limbs to be a body. (Extracts from the Works of Theodotus)

The Creation is an Emanation of God Hebrews 11:3

The Creation is an Emanation of God Hebrews 11:3

or 

The Doctrine of Emanation of the aeons Hebrews 11:3

In this study we will look at the doctrine of emanation first an introductory reading from the Tripartite Tractate

The emanation of the Totalities, which exist from the one who exists, did not occur according to a separation from one another, as something cast off from the one who begets them. Rather, their begetting is like a process of extension, as the Father extends himself to those whom he loves, so that those who have come forth from him might become him as well. (The Tripartite Tractate)

If God created the universe, and 'before' that the only existence was that of God. And from nothing comes nothing, and something always comes from something. Then God must have created the universe out of his own being. (creation ex deo)

Any teachings which involve emanation are usually in opposition to creation ex nihilo as emanation advocates that everything has always existed and has not been "created" from nothing.

The common phrase creatio ex nihilo (lit. "creation out of nothing"), the idea of a big bang is incorrect you can not make something out of nothing this is were the doctrine of emanation comes in or creatio ex deo (creation out of the being of God or Creation out of the substance of God himself.) 1st Cor. 8:6.

According to Emanationism, Creation occurs by a process of emanation - "out-flowing".

The source or fountain of power in the universe is one. It is a unit. Therefore, everything which exists is ex autou out of Him. Hence the Creator did not "make all things out of nothing."

The Meaning of Emanation

To begin with we will look at the meaning of the word emanation

The word "Emanation" comes from the Latin e-manare, "to flow forth". 

proérchomai

The Greek word Exerchomai means to go or come forth of emitted as from the heart or the mouth 2e
to flow forth from the body 2e
to emanate, issue 

The word Exerchomai (Strong's Number: 1831) comes from two Greek words from 1537 and 2064;

1537 ἐκ ek [ek] or ἐξ ex [ex] 

a primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence action or motion proceeds), from, out (of place, time, or cause; literal or figurative; prep;  

AV-of 366, from 181, out of 162, by 55, on 34, with 25, misc 98; 921 

1) out of, from, by, away from

1Cor 8:6 there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, on account of whom all things are, and we because of him. (NWT)

1 Chron 16:27 Majestic splendor emanates from him, he is the source of strength and joy. (Net Bible)

Psa 96:6 Majestic splendor emanates from him; his sanctuary is firmly established and beautiful. (Net Bible)

The Hebrew terms used for emanation are aẓilut or aẓilah (cf. Num. 11:17), hishtalshelut, meshekh, shefa; the verbs shalaḥ and sadar (in the pu'al) are also used (see J. Klatzkin, Thesaurus Philosophicus (1930), 96; 4 (1933), 112).

God's spirit

The first place in the Bible where the word occurs is in‭ ‬Gen.‭ i. ‬2.‭ ‬Here it is‭ ‬ruach Elohim,‭ ‬a principle going out of,‭ ‬or from,‭ ‬the Mighty Ones.‭ ‬What could this be‭? ‬It may be known by its effects.‭ “‬It brooded upon the face of the waters,‭”—‬of the waters which in the primeval state of the earth,‭ ‬covered its entire surface.‭ ‬This brooding principle covered the surface and penetrated its substance in all its atoms,‭ ‬so that it was only necessary for the word of command to go forth from the Mighty,‭ ‬and whatever might be commanded would be done.


‬Everything was made by this brooding principle as the executive of divine Wisdom.‭ “‬By His spirit he hath garnished the heavens‭;” “‬He sendeth forth his spirit‭; ‬they are created,‭” ‬even all the things detailed by Moses.‭ ‬Hence,‭ ‬Job says,‭ “‬the‭ ‬ruach of‭ ‬Ail hath made me,‭ ‬and the‭ ‬Nishmah of SHADDAI hath given me life.‭ ‬The Spirit is,‭ ‬therefore,‭ ‬formative.‭ ‬It is creative power.‭ ‬It made the light‭; ‬it divided the vapours from the waters by an expanse‭; ‬gathered the waters together in the place of seas‭; ‬formed the vegetable world‭; ‬established the astronomy of the heavens‭; ‬developed the animal kingdom‭; ‬and executed the whole so satisfactorily that the work was pronounced‭ “‬very good.‭”

When we contemplate‭ ‬spirit through these results,‭ ‬we behold an Almighty power which is predicated of AIL—the‭ ‬spirit of Ail.‭ ‬But what is AIL‭? ‬Etymologically,‭ ‬it is‭ ‬strength,‭ ‬might,‭ ‬power.‭ ‬Hence the‭ ‬Spirit of AIL is a powerful emanation,‭ ‬or‭ ‬breathing forth of power.‭ ‬ALMIGHTY POWER is the fountain and origin of the universe,‭ “‬out of whom are all things‭” ‬says Paul‭ (‬1‭ ‬Cor.‭ 8:‬6‭)‬.‭ ‬He also tells us that the fountain of Omnipotence is a glorious and torrid centre‭; ‬a centre that cannot be approached by man,‭ ‬and the dwelling place of an invisible,‭ ‬intelligent,‭ ‬and deathless being‭ (‬1‭ ‬Tim.‭ vi. ‬16‭)‬.‭

corporeal intelligence that hath always existed,‭ ‬and out of whom,‭ ‬as‭ “‬THE FATHER,‭” ‬all things have been produced.‭ ‬But of what does his substance consist‭? ‬What his nature‭? ‬What is he‭?


‭ “‬HE IS SPIRIT.‭”

These are the words of Jesus,‭ ‬who knew what he affirmed.‭ ‬AIL is spirit,‭ ‬and there is a spirit of AIL—the fountain and the stream are both spirit,‭ ‬and hold a like relation that radiant caloric does to iron glowing with a white heat.‭ ‬But what is the glowing substance of Deity‭? ‬That which shall be manifested in the saints when they become spirit,‭ ‬for they shall be like him who is in the bosom of the Father.‭ “‬Deity is spirit,‭” ‬and to convey our conception to the reader of this substance,‭ ‬we would style it‭ ‬corporeal electricity.‭

The Spirit is a procedure from the Father; an emanation sent forth wheresoever He pleaseth. It is that by which he establishes a relationship, or connection, between Himself and every thing animate and inanimate in the Universe.

God and his Spirit are inseparable. This Spirit is coeternal with God himself; is the emanation of his incorruptible substance ; out of which he has generated the universe ; by which he is present everywhere, and with which he pervades all things.

The Holy Spirit is God’s power, not a separated deity or divine personality, but is rather an unseen power emanating from the Deity, filling all space, and by which God is everywhere present. God is omnipresent by the means of His Spirit flowing out from his personal presence. This spirit power is universal in upholding all things in the natural world. It is medium by which God created all things.

God's Substance

To fully understand the teaching of Emanation we need to understand God's Substance or his corporeal body. Now the problem is most people think of God has a sort of formless, shapeless thing floating about in space like a cloud of mist, only with a mind and will an incorporeal, unsubstantial, immaterial spirit that is as near to nothing as words can express.

Hebrews 1:3 He is the reflection of [his] glory and the exact representation of his very being, and he sustains all things by the word of his power; and after he had made a purification for our sins he sat down on the right hand of the Majesty in lofty places

Hebrews 1:3 who, being the radiance of His glory and the exact expression of His substance, and upholding all things by the power of His word, through having made the purification of sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high (Berean Literal Bible)

The word translated "very being" or "substance" is the Greek word hypostasis

Strong's #5287: hupostasis (pronounced hoop-os'-tas-is)

Hypostasis, the original cognate of substantia

Etymologically,

hypostasis = hypó ("under") + stásis ("a standing" = (hístēmi ("to stand") + -sis, verbal noun suffix)) = "that which stands under"

substantia = sub ("under") + stans ("standing", present active participle of stō ("stand")) = "that which stands under".

From this we can conclude that Hypostasis refers to the nature/essence or "substance" of the Father, the Father-Spirit is substantial.

However, in later centuries hypostasis began referring to the "person", not the "nature" or "being" of God. 

"an accurate representation in the manner of an 'impress' or 'stamp', as of a coin to a die" (NIBC); "the mark [which] is the exact impression of the seal" (Barclay). Christ is "the image of God" (2Co 4:4) and "the image of the invisible God" (Col 1:15); although in these two instances, the Gr word "eikon" is different from that used here. John expressed the same idea in the words "anyone who has seen me [Jesus] has seen the Father" (John 14:9).

the Son is the Character of his Hypostasis rendered, in the common version, "express image of his person." The Son is the character or exact representation, and the Father is the hypostasis. In reference to the former, the Father says, in Zech. iii. 9, "Upon One Stone there shall be Seven Eyes ; behold, I will engrave the graving thereof (that is, of the stone), saith He who shall be hosts." The graving engraved on the stone is termed, in Greek, character, an impress wrought into a substance after some archetype or pattern. This archetype is the hypostasis, so that hypostasis is the basis or foundation of character; wherefore the same apostle in Col. i. 15, styles the character engraved the IMAGE of Theos the Invisible. Seth was the image of Adam, and Adam, the image of Elohim (cf. Gen. i. 26 ; v. 3.). Like Seth, Jesus was an image of Adam, but only in relation to flesh. Adam the First was image of Elohim, and this was in relation to bodily form. Body and form were the hypostasis of Adam and Seth; that is, they were the basis or foundation of the images so named. Where body and form do not exist, there can be no image; therefore, where image is predicated of hypostasis, that hypostasis must have both body and form. The Father-Spirit, unveiled, is, then, a bodily form; and as all things are "out of Him," He is the focal centre of the universe, from which irradiates whatever exists. (Eureka by Dr. Thomas)

 

The Creation by Emanation

By me," says Wisdom, " Yahweh formed the earth." " I am understanding ;" and "by understanding he established the heavens."

We can compare this with what is written in Job " By his SPIRIT he garnished the heavens;" (Job 26:13) 

or in the words of David, " By the WORD of Yahweh were the heavens made ; and all the host of them by the Spirit of his mouth." Psalms 33:6 

For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast. From these statements, then, it is evident that Wisdom, the Word, and the Spirit, are but different terms, expressing the same thing; 

The apostle John, in speaking of this, saith, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was made not any thing which exists. In him was life, and the life was the light of men." 

This appears to me to be a very comprehensible account of the matter. The Word, Wisdom, Spirit, God, all one and the same; for He, being the fountain and origin, are the emanation from himself.

Hebrews 11:1 Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities (5287 ὑπόστασις hupostasis or hypostasis) though not seen.

2 For by means of this the men of old times had witness borne to them.
Hebrews 11:3 By faith we perceive that the ages (165 αἰών aeon ahee-ohn’) were put in order by the word of God, so that what is seen has come to be out of things that do not appear.

The ages or aeons were set in order by the word of God that means they were God-breathed the ages emanated from God's own substance they are the unseen realities

It is called "the word of God" because it is a good message emanating from Him by his spirit  this we can see from 2tim 3:16

2tim 3:16 Every scripture, is God-breathed (2315. θεόπνευστος theopneustos), and profitable--unto teaching, unto conviction, unto correction, unto the discipline that is in righteousness,--

[Inbreathing (2315 /theópneustos) relates directly to God's Spirit (Gk pneuma) which can also be translated "breath."]

[G. Archer, "2315 (theópneustos) is better rendered 'breathed out by God' as the emphasis is upon the divine origin of the inscripturated revelation itself" (A Survey of OT Introduction, fn. 7, 29).]

So here we can see that the ages being set forth by the word of God means they were breathed out by God or emanated from his substance so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

 this is the doctrine of the emanation of the aeons 

The Father, out of whom are all things

1 Cor. 8:6  yet to us there is but one God, the Father, out of whom are all things and we in Him, and one Lord Jesus Christ on account of whom are all things, and we by Him.

The Father is absolute power from whose incorruptible substance radiates holy spirit or active force is before all existing things. This self-existing incorruptible substance is essentially spirit—spirit substance—a concentration and condensation into ONE BODY of all the attributes, intellectual, moral and physical, of omnipotence—all things are out of Deity (1 Cor. 8:6). All things being out of Deity, they were not made out of nothing. The sun, moon and stars, together with all things pertaining to each, were made out of something, and that something was the radiant flowing out of His substance, or active force, which pervades all things. By his active force, all created things are connected with the creator of the universe, which is light that no man can approach unto, so that not even a sparrow falls to the ground without the Father, who is not far from every one of us.

John 1:3  All things, through him, came into existence, and, without him, came into existence, not even one thing: that which hath come into existence,

The Eternal Spirit (Heb. 9:14) as Creator, is necessarily before all things, and is, therefore, the "Theos," and the "Logos" of John 1:3, where it is testified that "all things were made on account of Him; and without Him was made not one thing which exists."

For out of Him, (ex autou) and through Him, and for Him are all things. To Him be the glory for the Aeons. Amen" (Rom. 11: 33-36).

The source or fountain of power in the universe is one. It is a unit. Therefore, everything which exists is out of Him. Hence the Creator did not "make all things out of nothing."

Hence the sun, the moon, and the stars, and all the things they can see, taste, feel, smell, and hear upon earth, are God. But do not confuse that which "is of Him" with the "Him" out of whom all things proceed.

The angels or the Elohim also are emanated from the Father

Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire: Psalm 104:4

To emanate is to bring about and sustain all things from the essence or substance that the True Deity supplies through his Spirit, it sustains all created things in life; so that when withdrawn they perish, and man returns to dust, Job xxxiv. 14

Emanations of the formative Spirit being out of him. The Spirit-Elohim are also "God"; nevertheless they are created. They are formed and made out of and by that which is uncreated. They are Spirit-Forms, the substance of which (spirit) is eternal; while the forms are from a beginning. Each one is a God in the sense of partaking of THE DIVINE NATURE, and being therefore a Son of the Deity.

The Deity (EL), therefore, refers to that mighty Power whose work is publicly displayed in all creation, and whose energy is the basis of all matter for "out of Him were all things made." "Lord," declared the Psalmist, "thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations. Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting you are Power" -- Ps. 90:1-2.

Psalm 8:3, "When I consider the heavens, the work of Thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained because Elohim are the agents or administrative fingers of the Spirit.  "The Spirit of God" and "the fingers of God" are synonymous, as appears from Matt. 12:28; Luke 11:20; and Elohim are spirit, being out of Deity (EL). What the fingers of the hand are to the brain, such are the hosts of Elohim to Deity (EL); they are "Unity of Spirit," which is "God."

The Father-Spirit is embodied power. which implies offspring or children, children or SONS OF POWER. Son-power is also embodied power. It is power emanating from the Father, corporealized in one or a multitude, but never separated or detached from the focal centre. . The Son-power is, therefore, the Father-power, multitudinously expressed, manifested through many bodies.

"He only hath deathlessness." Life radiating from His substance, is spirit-life (El ruach), that is power of spirit. Formative of a creature, and sustaining it in life, it is power of spirit, or spirit-power for that creature. Twelve such Eloahh ruach become Elohim ruchoth, spirit-powers of the twelve. Hence, these Elohim are son-powers, or emanations from the Deity, the great "paternal power." He is therefore the Deity of all flesh, as well as Elohim for all flesh. "The ruach or spirit of Deity (EL) has made me, and the breath of the Shaddai, or Mighty Ones, hath given me life" (Job. 33:4). Here is the Spirit of Deity (EL) through the breath of Shaddai that gives life to men. This withdrawn and they die. Hence it is written: "If He gather unto himself His spirit and His breath, all flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn unto dust" (34:14).

In this elaboration, then, we have Father-Power, Son-Power, or emanation, and Holy Spirit or active force. The Father-Power is One; the Son-Power is the One Father-Power in plural manifestation; and the manifestation is developed by Holy Spirit or active force emanation from the Father Power.

As we have seen, Moses and the prophets teach "One" self-existent, supreme fountain of Power, Deity (EL) who is Spirit, and self-named I SHALL BE, or Yahweh: that is ONE YAHWEH-SPIRIT POWER is "God" in the highest sense, and constitutes the FATHER IN HEAVEN; and He is the Springhead of many streams, or rivers of spirit,

according to the will of the Yahweh-Spirit Power, and that when formed after the model, archetype, or the pattern, presented in HIS OWN Substance, they become SPIRIT-ELOHIM, or sons of God; and are Spirit, because "born of the Spirit" -- Emanations of the formative Spirit being out of him. The Spirit-Elohim was also "God"; nevertheless they are created. They are formed and made out of and by that which is uncreated. They are Spirit-Forms, the substance of which (spirit) is eternal; while the forms are from a beginning. Each one is a God in the sense of partaking of THE DIVINE NATURE, and being therefore a Son of God.

 

Christ pre-existed but Jesus didn't John 1:1-4

Christ pre-existed but Jesus didn't John 1:1-4

In contrast to orthodox Christians, Valentinians did not believe that Christ was joined to Jesus at his birth. Instead, they insisted that Christ became joined to Jesus only at the beginning of his ministry i.e. at his baptism. The dove which descends upon Jesus at the baptism was understtod as Christ descending on Jesus and joining with him (Irenaeus Against Heresies 1:7:2, 1:15:3, 3:16:1, 3:10:3, Excerpts of Theodotus 61:6,26:1 Hippolytus Refutation 6:35:3). Christ is "the Name which came down upon Jesus in the dove and redeemed him" (Excerpts of Theodotus 22:6 cf. Gospel of Philip 70:34-36).Jesus was anointed with the Spirit of God at his baptism in the Jordan.

In the beginning was the LOGOS - (the outward manifestation of the inward thought)

the LOGOS WAS with God. (Yahweh and His Divine Plan could not be separated)
the LOGOS was God - (God and the Logos are one).

Christ, the Word, who “in the beginning laid the foundations of the earth,” therefore pre-existed before the birth of “the body prepared” of the substance of Mary, and which lay dead in the tomb. That body named Jesus, had no existence until developed by the Christ-Power. Federally, indeed, it pre-existed in the loins of Abraham and in Adam, as Levi was in Abraham, and we in Adam, before birth; but not otherwise. (On the Nature of Christ February 22nd, 1867 by Eusebia J. Lasius)

The pre-existent Christ, or Deity, was not the less Deity because he veiled himself in flesh, in our “sinful flesh,” or “sin’s flesh,” and styled himself JESUS, or he who shall be Saviour. (Dr. Thomas letter to Robert Robert July 17th, 1869)

In reference to those words of Jesus, saying,—“The bread I give for the life of the world is my flesh” (John 6.) For the bread of the Deity is He, who descending out of the heaven, and giveth life to the world.’ This was as much as to say, that the manna was representative of a life-imparting agent from heaven: even the Logos speaking by Jesus. ‘In him’—the Logos, ‘was Life,’ says John ‘and the Life, was the light of men.’ It was this Logos who said, ‘I am the Way and the Truth; the Resurrection and the Life’: ‘I am the Bread of Life,’ or the manna: ‘I came down from heaven’: this is the bread which descendeth from heaven, that a man may eat thereof and not die’ . . . ‘If any man eat of this bread he shall live in the age: and the bread that I (the Logos) will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. (Eureka -- Vol 1 -- Chap 2 -- Sec 3: 8. The Hidden Manna)

Jesus was not literally the Word. He was the word "made flesh". (John:14). Jesus is the complete manifestation of the logos - "in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Deity bodily." (Col. 2:9). It was the "logos" which was in the beginning with God, not Jesus. When the "word was made flesh" (John 1:14) then, and then only, Jesus became the "Word".
Jesus is called the Word (Rev. 19:13 cf. 1 John 1:1; Luke 1:2) since his doctrine and words came from his Father (John 7:16; 17:14). He was the logos lived out in speech and action, not merely written on scrolls. (wrested scriptures)

Jesus Christ in the day of his weakness, had two sides—the one, DEITY; the other, MAN—the Eternal Christ-Power or the anointing spirit veiled in, and manifested through the flesh created from the ground; which flesh had Willfully transgressed the Divine Law, the penalty of which sent it back into the dust from whence it came. This is Jesus Christ the true Deity, whom to know is life eternal. (Dr. Thomas letter to Robert Robert July 17th, 1869)

This flesh which inhabited Paradise, like all the beasts. Was “very good” of its sort, is described as “sin” and “sin’s flesh,” because it sinned or transgressed the Eden law. Our flesh is the same as Adam’s before he sinned, only the worse for wear: for Paul says that we sinned in him, and he was sinless before he sinned; and we were as much in his loins when he was sinless, as in the act of sinning. His flesh undefiled by sin is constitutionally the same as the flesh of his posterity defiled legally thereby. The Christ-Deity veiled himself in the Adamic nature defiled by sin, in order that he might condemn sin in the flesh and to condemn sin to death in the nature which, although created “very good,” had legally defiled itself by transgression of the Eden law. This purpose would have been defeated if he had veiled himself in a clean nature. (Dr. Thomas letter to Robert Robert July 17th, 1869)

To say that the Man, Jesus, was corporeally clean, or pure, holy, spotless, and undefiled, is in effect to say that he was not “made of a woman;” for Scripture teaches, that nothing born of woman can possibly be clean: but it is testified that he was “born of a woman;” he must therefore necessarily have been born corporeally unclean. Hence, it is written of him in Psalm 51:5, “I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.” He therefore prays, “Purge me with sop and I shall be clean; wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.” This prayer has been answered, and he has been “Washed thoroughly from his (corporeal) iniquity, and cleansed from his sin;” so that now he has a clean nature, which is spirit and divine—“the Lord the Spirit”—once dead as to flesh, but now alive as Spirit for evermore.—(Rev. 1:18.) (Dr. Thomas letter to Robert Robert July 17th, 1869)

I believe that Christ pre-existed but Jesus didn't. It may sound complicated but it isn't really.

It's about God Manifestation - ultimately the angels the "focalisations of the Spirit", Jesus Christ and the Saints are all manifestations of God (which is why Jesus says "does it not say in your law Ye are gods?").

The exhortation is that we need to behave like that now, while we are in the flesh, because once the flesh is removed we will only be as much Spirit as has been developed in us.

The Christ descended on Jesus at his Baptism Matthew 3-16

In contrast to orthodox Christians, Valentinians did not believe that Christ was joined to Jesus at his birth. Instead, they insisted that Christ became joined to Jesus only at the beginning of his ministry i.e. at his baptism. The dove which descends upon Jesus at the baptism was understtod as Christ descending on Jesus and joining with him (Irenaeus Against Heresies 1:7:2, 1:15:3, 3:16:1, 3:10:3, Excerpts of Theodotus 61:6,26:1 Hippolytus Refutation 6:35:3). Christ is "the Name which came down upon Jesus in the dove and redeemed him" (Excerpts of Theodotus 22:6 cf. Gospel of Philip 70:34-36).Jesus was anointed with the Spirit of God at his baptism in the Jordan.

And he died at the .departure of the Spirit which had descended upon him in the Jordan, not that it became separate but was withdrawn in order that death might also operate on him, since how did the body die when life was present in him? (Theodotus 61:6)

Proof:

How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. (Acts 10:38). (Christadelphian Instructor 1891)

The dove represented the anointing spirit of God. This spirit entered the body of Jesus Christ and remained in him until Jesus was crucified. 

So we read...

Matthew 3:16 Having been baptized, Jesus immediately rose up from the water and look! The heavens were opened up and he saw the spirit of God descending as if a dove coming upon him.

God giveth not the spirit by measure unto him," John 3:34

Again, in his gospel narrative (John 1:14), he says: —" The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth," from which it is evident that Christ was a divine manifestation—an embodiment of Deity in flesh—Emmanuel, God with us. " God giveth not the spirit by measure unto him," says the same apostle (John 3:34). (Christendom Astray Chapter 6)

The spirit descended upon him in bodily shape at his baptism in the Jordan, and took possession of him. This was the anointing which constituted him Christ (or the anointed), and which gave him the superhuman powers of which he showed himself possessed. (Christendom Astray Chapter 6)

This is clear from the words of Peter, in his address to the Gentiles in the house of Cornelius —(Acts 10:38)—" God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed." (Christendom Astray Chapter 6)

This statement alone is sufficient to disprove the popular view of Jesus been co-equal and co-eternal. If he were "very God" in his character and nature as Son, why was it necessary he should be "anointed" with spirit and power? (Christendom Astray Chapter 6)

Jesus did no miracles before his anointing. He had no power of himself. This is his own declaration: "I can of mine own sell do nothing" (John 5:30). "The Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works" (John 14:10). At his death Jesus was left to the utter helplessness of his own humanity, he felt the severe mental and physical pain of his suffering that hour and cried out, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" (Matt. 27:46). (Christendom Astray Chapter 6)

Before his anointing, he was simply the " body prepared " for the divine manifestation that was to take place through him. The preparation of this body commenced with the Spirit's action on Mary, and concluded when Jesus, being thirty years of age, stood approved in the perfection of a sinless and mature character. (Christendom Astray Chapter 6)

After the Spirit's descent upon him, he was the full manifestation of God in the flesh. The Father, by the Spirit, tabernacled in Christ among men. "God was in Christ," says Paul, " Reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them." (Christendom Astray Chapter 6)

When raised from the dead and glorified, he was exalted to "all power in heaven and earth"; his human nature was swallowed up in the divine; the flesh changed to spirit. Hence, as he now exists, " In him dwelleth all the fullness of the God-head bodily " (Col. 2:9). He is now the corporealisation of life-spirit as it exists in the Deity. (Christendom Astray Chapter 6)

The effluent spirit (out-flowing spirit) forsook Jesus when he exclaimed upon the cross, "My AIL (EL), my AIL (EL), why hast Thou forsaken me?" The effluent power by which he had taught and worked was withdrawn from him for some time before he died. The Spirit no longer rested upon the Cherub, yet that Cherub continued to live as other men. In process of time he expired.(Phanerosis)

Dr Thomas in Phanerosis is saying that the out-flowing anointing spirit was taken away from Jesus when he cried out upon the cross, "My God, my God, why hast Thou forsaken me?" 

The out-flowing power by which he had taught and worked was withdrawn from him for some time before he died. The Spirit no longer rested upon Jesus, yet Jesus continued to live as other men. In process of time he expired. 

By Cherub Dr Thomas understands this as a vehicle for the spirit to ride

not that the spirit became separate from him but was withdrawn in order that death might also operate on him, since how did the body die when life was present in it?  (Theodotus 61:6)

 

Jesus did not become the Christ until His baptism. Jesus, up until his baptism, was simply the body that God had prepared for the Christ to indwell. The Spirit descended upon Jesus at his baptism in the Jordan, and took possession of Him. This was the anointing which constituted him as the Christ, and which gave Him the superhuman powers which He demonstrated during His ministry.

The Deity is Transcendent The Elohim Handle all the Personal Appearances 1 Timothy 6:14-16

The Deity is Transcendent The Elohim Handle all the Personal Appearances 1 Timothy 6:14-16

The Transcendence of God 

The title of his subject is the "Transcendence of God" but before we look at the meaning of the word transcendent, we will first have an introductory reading from 1 Timothy 6:14-16

1 Timothy 6:14 that you keep this commandment without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ’s appearing, 15 which He will manifest in His own time, He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen. (1 Timothy 6:14-16)

Meaning of Transcendent

transcend

verb: transcend; 3rd person present: transcends; past tense: transcended; past participle: transcended; gerund or present participle: transcending

be or go beyond the range or limits of (a field of activity or conceptual sphere).

surpass (a person or achievement).

transcendent

beyond or above the range of normal or physical human experience.
"the search for a transcendent level of knowledge"

(of God) existing apart from and not subject to the limitations of the material universe.

God is Transcendent

So the Father is transcendent--that means the Deity exist above and beyond our physical universe.

The Father existed outside of time and space before he created the heavens and the earth:

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

The Father is the only truly transcendent Being. Yahweh Elohim created all things on the earth, and in the heavens above, yet He exists above and independent from them

The Deity is far removed from man in fact he is not seen in the bible at all by mortals, man can not see the Deity

John 6:46  Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he that is from God, he hath seen the Father.

The ONE SELF-EXISTENT ETERNAL Deity hath never been seen by any mortal man -- that He is an undivided and invisible unity, pre-existent before the beginning of all things, intelligent and material; He dwells in unapproachable light; and SPIRIT emanates from His substance; (Phanerosis)

God in his nature also transcends that of creation:

Isaiah 57:15 For this is what the High and Lofty One, who is residing forever and whose name is holy, has said: “In the height and in the holy place is where I reside, 

The word translated forever is the Hebrew word Olam עוֹלָם the septuagint has αιωνα

1tim 6:16 the one alone having immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom not one of men has seen or can see. To him be honor and might everlasting. Amen.

3  who being the brightness of the glory, and the impress of His subsistence, bearing up also the all things by the saying of his might — through himself having made a cleansing of our sins, sat down at the right

Heb 12:10  For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed good to them; but he for our profit, that we may be partakers of his holiness.

2Peter 1:4  whereby he hath granted unto us his precious and exceeding great promises; that through these ye may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in that world by lust.

From the bible we learn that God has a substance Hebrews 1:3 and this substance is his divine nature 2Peter 1:4 so God is corporeal and SPIRIT emanates from His substance. Therefore God is both corporeal and incorporeal at the same time

 Omnipresent

God is above in the highest heaven far removed from the earth but he is not inaccessible we can reach him by prayer which is personal communion with God knowledge of him is obtained by the bible and thus the spirit-word engraved on our hearts becomes a manifestation of God within us later allowing the holy spirit to dwell within us which is a manifestation of the father and the son within us

To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. Colossians 1:27

God is present everywhere by his spirit power and at the same time God also has unlimited power. However the Deity himself is located in the Highest Heaven.

"Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me. If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me. Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day" (Psalm 139:7-12).

The Elohim Handle all the Personal Appearances

Transcendence

God is called "invisible" in 1Tim 1:17. Much sport has been made of the Bible by shallow men who claim to see a contradiction in this. They read such passages as Exo 33:11 to prove that Moses saw God (Elohim or Angel) face to face, but they neglect other passages like Acts 7:35, which show that the angels were God's messengers to communicate with man: "Behold, I send an Angel before thee... Beware of him, and obey his voice... for My name is in him" (Exo 23:20,21). 

God could direct one of His angels so that the angel became in effect God. Cp, for example, Gen 32:30 with Hos 12:3-5. Abraham was said to have talked to God, but a careful look at Gen 18:1,2; 19:1 shows that he dealt only with angels. "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared Him" (John 1:18). 

Elohim

Elohim stands for “powerful ones.” It was often translated by the English non-word “God.” It isn’t that far from being true, though, for it was Elohim who manipulated the planet and placed humans on it. It was Elohim who said 'Let us form the human in our own image.' It was Elohim who appeared to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Isaiah, Ezekiel, David, and Josiah, to name a few. EL (the Deity) has never been seen by anyone.

The Elohim handle all the personal appearances. We know this because Scripture clearly teaches that all creation was produced from One Power (out of and through which are all things) but this One Power operates by way of a multitude of agents (Elohim) who are spirit-embodiments of its power. “But what if some poor human sees Elohim going about El’s business and he thinks they are something else ... like men from Mars?” Beg pardon?

If humans become what they eat is it odd to think humans see what they want to see and think what they want to think? A person who eats, sees, and believes things that aren’t true and proper is bound to have problems somewhere along the line. Tough, isn’t it?

Summary

God is transcendent in that he exists outside all that is the physical universe. God is immanent in that he exists within all the physical universe by his spirit.

The Deity himself does not directly interaction with the creation this is done by the Elohim or the angels Hebrews 1:14 Hebrews 2:5