The Gnostic Redeemed Redeemer Not A Myth

 The Redeemed Redeemer 

or

The Gnostic Redeemer Myth

If anyone has read any books on Gnosticism they may of come a cross the term(s) redeemed redeemer or saved savior I find it strange that this called a myth by many scholars instead of a teaching in a belief system. I believe this is a doctrine not a myth we find this teaching in many Gnostic texts and in the Bible itself.   

Karen L. King writes in her book What is Gnosticism

Reitzenstein had argued that a key feature of the Gnostic redeemer myth was the shared identity of the savior with the saved....the term redeemed redeemer itself never appears in any primary text and its content was determined only by reference to the Gnostic salvation myth constructed by Reitzenstein, Bultmann, and Jonas. What is Gnosticism p 143

Speaking on hymn of the pear the acts of Thomas Hans Jonas writes: 

We can confidently take the King's Son to be the Savior, a definite divine figure, and not just the personification of the human soul in general. Yet this unique position does not prevent him from undergoing in his own person the full force of human destiny, even to the extent that he the savior himself has to be saved. Hans Jonas Gnostic Religion

Some quotes from the The Gnostic Bible

He who was redeemed redeemed the world. The Gnostic Bible p 282

You are saved in him who was saved. The Gnostic Bible 364

Speaking on hymn of the pear the acts of Thomas: 

The son has a double or twin role, for he appears to be both savior and the soul that he

saves; he saves and must himself be saved. The Gnostic Bible 387

In this allegory of redemption, as Hans Jonas points out, the savior himself must be saved—or rather, must save himself. The Gnostic Bible 387

Early Christian teaching on the saved savior or Redeemed Redeemer

the Odes of Solomon 

Ode 8

20) Pray and increase, and abide in the love of the Lord;
21) And the beloved ones in the Beloved, and those who are protected in Him Who liveth, and those who are saved in Him Who was saved.
22) And ye shall be found incorrupt in all ages, on account of the Name of your Father.

Ode 17


Then I was crowned by my God, and my crown was living.
And I was justified by my Lord, for my salvation is incorruptible.
I have been freed from vanities, and am not condemned.
My chains were cut off by His hands, I received the face and likeness of a new person, and I walked in Him and was saved.

Ode 42

17 And open for us the door by which we may come out to You; for we perceive that our death does not touch You.
18 May we also be saved with You, because You are our Savior.
19 Then I heard their voice, and placed their faith in my heart.
20 And I placed my name upon their head, because they are free and they are mine.
Hallelujah.

address of the Redeemed Redeemer with a Christological doxology

The Redeemed One becomes the Redeemer Michael Lattke The odes of Solomon 244

From this we can see that the Redeemed Redeemer refers to the savior who was saved from death

As I have said above this is not myth but a doctrine this teaching can be found in the Bible and the Nag Hammadi Library, the Odes of Solomon, the hymn of the pear in the acts of Thomas

The Redeemed Redeemer is not a myth but a doctrine or teaching. 

So why would Jesus need to be saved the bible answers this because of sin and death. His body was as unclean as the bodies of those for whom he died; for he was born of a woman, and "not one" can bring a clean body out of a defiled body; for "that", says Jesus himself, "which is born of the flesh is flesh" (John 3:6)

Sin, is an equivalent expression for human nature.

Jesus needed to be saved from human nature or sinful flesh

The first thing I think we should look at is identity does the savior of the Gnostic text have a shared identity with the saved

The Nag Hammadi Library text of Melchizedek:

Furthermore, they will say of him that he is unbegotten, though he has been begotten, (that) he does not eat, even though he eats, (that) he does not drink, even though he drinks, (that) he is uncircumcised, though he has been circumcised, (that) he is unfleshly, though he has come in the flesh, (that) he did not come to suffering, <though> he came to suffering, (that) he did not rise from the dead, <though> he arose from the dead. NHS p. 600

This is a remarkable passage, which speaks out about the false doctrine of doceticism (docetic heretics those who will deny the physical reality of Jesus's nature) 
and confirms orthodox teaching on life death and resurrection of Jesus. 

It also shows that Jesus had a shred identity with the saved he was circumcised he came in the flesh

The Gospel of Thomas saying 28

28 Jesus said: I stood in the midst of the world, and I appeared to them in the flesh. I found them all drunk; I found none of them thirsting, and my soul was afflicted for the sons of men; for they are blind in their heart, and they do not see that they came empty into the world, (and) empty they seek to leave the world again. But now they are drunk. When they have thrown off their wine, they will repent

Here Jesus came in the Flesh his soul was afflicted for the children of men.  
"I appeared to them in the flesh" is translated by LAYTON to read "I was shown forth incarnate" 

Incarnate means “having a bodily form.” ... The prefix in- means “in” and caro means “flesh,” so incarnate means “in the flesh.”

We should compare this saying with saying 101 to find out the meaning of the word flesh Jesus has 2 mother's his birth mother after the flesh and his true mother the holy spirit

The Gospel of Thomas saying 101

Jesus said, "Those who do not hate their [father] and their mother as I do cannot be [disciples] of me. And those who [do not] love their [father and] their mother as I do cannot be [disciples of] me. For my birth mother gave me [death.] But my true [mother] gave me life." April Deconick translation

Jesus's birth mother could only give him death which we understand to be our sinful nature. 

Here in saying 101 death is an equivalent expression for human nature or the flesh. So here again in the Gospel of Thomas we have Jesus the Savior identitied with those he came to save by birth and natural nature the flesh

 The Gospel of Philip:

Jesus revealed himself [at the] Jordan River as the fullness of the Kingdom of Heaven. He who was begotten before everything, was begotten anew. He who was once anointed, was anointed anew. He who was redeemed, in turn redeemed others.

In some Gnostic texts, the man Jesus is separate from the heavenly Christ (or Logos) which descended into him during his baptism in the Jordan.

This shows that the some gnostic groups understood that Jesus first needed redemption for himself before he could redeem those for whom he came to die for. Jesus is thus the redeemed redeemer coming in our sinful nature. The Savor himself was in need of redemption.

Why should Jesus be baptized?

By this act, then, Jesus associated himself openly with the sinners he came to save. By it he proclaimed the essential one-ness of his nature with theirs. He too needed this baptism, inasmuch as he also was a member of this fallen race needing redemption. It was an acknowledgement that the great truth taught by John: “all flesh is grass”, applied to him also. He needed the benefits of his own sacrifice. Now, as well as at the end of the days of his flesh, he was “numbered with the transgressors” (Is. 53: 12). Harry Whittaker, Studies in the Gospels

Jesus's sanctification started at his baptism and ended with his resurrection after his death on the cross:

Hence, in the First Apocryphon of James, Jesus says to James that, during the time of his crucifixion, his (Jesus’) redemption ‘will be near’. Jesus: “Behold, I shall reveal to you everything of this mystery. For they will seize me the day after tomorrow. But my redemption will be near.” (First Apocryphon of James)

Further light is thrown on these baptismal records by the Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs, where the anointing of the Messianic Priest-king is described in these terms : " The heavens shall be opened, and from the Temple of glory shall come upon him sanctification, with the Father's voice as from Abraham to Isaac. And the glory of the Most High shall be uttered over him, and the spirit of understanding and sanctification shall rest upon him  The quotation is from Test. Levi. xviii, 6-7 (Cf. Test. Judah xxiv, I-3,\rhich is to the same effect). The Testaments, according to Charles, date from the second century B.C Hugh j. Schonfield  according to the Hebrews  p245 

"And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the Truth” (Jno. 17:19).

The Master, according to himself, had to be sanctified in order to sanctify his brethren. The principles of his redemption laid down the foundation for ours, namely, the condemnation of sin in the flesh, and the declaration of the Righteousness of God. In him, God was declared Right to require the destruction of the diabolos through death, and we must seek to likewise crucify the flesh (Gal. 5:24), and die daily (1 Cor. 15:31) in our endeavours to seek first God’s kingdom and righteousness.

Each year on the Day of Atonement, the High Priest entered into the Holy of Holies, offering a sacrifice for himself first, and having been sanctified, he offered to the people. These two aspects foreshadowed the work of Messiah, for speaking of these things, the Apostle wrote:

“For such an high priest became us … who needeth not daily, as those high priests to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people’s: for this he did once when he offered up himself.” (Heb. 7:26, 27).

The Scriptures could hardly be more explicit: just as the High Priest offered for himself and then for the people, “this he did once …” when he offered up himself. Of course, Messiah had no committed sin to be forgiven for—but he did have the root cause of sin within himself. He was “the likeness of sinful flesh” (Rom. 8:3), as it is testified of him:

“… be ye reconciled to God. For he hath made him sin for us, who knew no sin: that we might be made the righteousness of God in him” (2 Cor. 5:21).

Every High Priest taken from among men ... for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity. And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins" (Heb. 5:1-3).

Heb 5:7  Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

Here we have Jesus the Savor who was saved from death this is the bibles teaching of a Saved Savor or Redeemed Redeemer who was saved from death.

The fact that Christ had to plead with God to save him from death rules out any possibility of him being God in person. After Christ's resurrection, death had "no more dominion over him" (Rom. 6:9), implying that beforehand it did.

The Redemption of Jesus is the Archetype for Redemption 

In the Tripartite Tractate, the Son (Jesus) is in need of redemption, because he had become a man. It is the heavenly Word which ‘descended upon him’ that offered him ‘redemption’: “Not only do humans need redemption, but also the angels, too... even the Son himself, who has the position of redeemer of the Totality, needed redemption as well - he who had become man - since he gave himself for each thing which we need, we in the flesh, who are his Church. Now, when he first received redemption from the word which had descended upon him, all the rest received redemption from him, namely those who had taken him to themselves.” (Tripartite Tractate)

The interpretation of Knowledge::

The man ... (11 lines missing)... this is the name. The [...] he emitted himself and he relinquished his majesty, taking scorn in exchange for  the name. for our sakes he endured the scorn. He appeared as flesh, and came as a provider.  He has no need of the glory that is not his; he has his own glory with the name, which is the Son. Now he came that we might become glorious through his humiliation as he dwelled in these humble places. And through him who was reproached we receive the forgiveness of sins. And through the one who was reproached and the one who was redeemed we receive grace.

The Nag Hammadi Library text of Melchizedek:

He included himself in the living offering, together with your offspring. He offered them up as an offering to the All. For it is not cattle that you will offer up for sin(s) of unbelief, and for the ignorances, and (for) all the wicked deeds which they will do NHS p. 601

"Such an High Priest became us ... who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's, for this he did once, when he offered up himself" (Heb. 7:26-27).

If Christ's offering did not comprehend himself how are we to understand the statement of Paul (in Heb 7:27)

The Jewish high priest had to make an offering firstly for his own sins, and then for those of the people (Heb. 5:1-3). Christ's sacrifice had this same two-fold structure. Although he did not have any sins personally, Jesus was still of human nature, and needed salvation from death. This salvation was provided by God on account of Christ's own sacrifice; thus Jesus died both to gain his own salvation, and also to make ours possible.

The Lord's sacrifice was necessary for his own redemption. His sacrifice was a public demonstration that his flesh was rightly related to death and a declaration of the righteousness of God that required the offering of his life in devotion to Him. By his sacrifice the ungodly propensities (diabolos) of his nature was destroyed (Heb. 2:14; 9:12; 7:27), thus providing for the granting of immortality.

Here this passage teaches that Christ the high  priest offered his own body for his own redemption He offered himself for himself and his brothers his offspring in the living offering that is his life as a living sacrifice

Now we come to the Gospel of Philip

78. The Lord was conceived (born again) from what is imperishable, from God. The [Lord arose] from among the dead. But [He did not come into being as he was. Rather [his body] was [completely] perfect. It was of flesh, and this [flesh is indeed] true flesh.¹ [Yet our flesh] is not true, but rather a mirror-image of the true [flesh]. (¹Jn 1:14, 20:27, II-Jn 7; NHS p. 174

This passage shows that the spiritual body is corporeal (tangible) and it has flesh and this flesh is true flesh, which is called spiritual flesh thus spiritual body but our flesh is only a shadow of the true like Adam who was only a type of him who was to come (Romans 5:14)

So before his resurrection from the dead Jesus had human flesh or human nature which is called in the text "our flesh is not true flesh" but after he arose from among the dead he had a new body imperishable, from God 

Christ pre-existed but Jesus didn't John 1:1-4

Christ pre-existed but Jesus didn't John 1:1-4

In contrast to orthodox Christians, Valentinians did not believe that Christ was joined to Jesus at his birth. Instead, they insisted that Christ became joined to Jesus only at the beginning of his ministry i.e. at his baptism. The dove which descends upon Jesus at the baptism was understtod as Christ descending on Jesus and joining with him (Irenaeus Against Heresies 1:7:2, 1:15:3, 3:16:1, 3:10:3, Excerpts of Theodotus 61:6,26:1 Hippolytus Refutation 6:35:3). Christ is "the Name which came down upon Jesus in the dove and redeemed him" (Excerpts of Theodotus 22:6 cf. Gospel of Philip 70:34-36).Jesus was anointed with the Spirit of God at his baptism in the Jordan.

In the beginning was the LOGOS - (the outward manifestation of the inward thought)

the LOGOS WAS with God. (Yahweh and His Divine Plan could not be separated)
the LOGOS was God - (God and the Logos are one).

Christ, the Word, who “in the beginning laid the foundations of the earth,” therefore pre-existed before the birth of “the body prepared” of the substance of Mary, and which lay dead in the tomb. That body named Jesus, had no existence until developed by the Christ-Power. Federally, indeed, it pre-existed in the loins of Abraham and in Adam, as Levi was in Abraham, and we in Adam, before birth; but not otherwise. (On the Nature of Christ February 22nd, 1867 by Eusebia J. Lasius)

The pre-existent Christ, or Deity, was not the less Deity because he veiled himself in flesh, in our “sinful flesh,” or “sin’s flesh,” and styled himself JESUS, or he who shall be Saviour. (Dr. Thomas letter to Robert Robert July 17th, 1869)

In reference to those words of Jesus, saying,—“The bread I give for the life of the world is my flesh” (John 6.) For the bread of the Deity is He, who descending out of the heaven, and giveth life to the world.’ This was as much as to say, that the manna was representative of a life-imparting agent from heaven: even the Logos speaking by Jesus. ‘In him’—the Logos, ‘was Life,’ says John ‘and the Life, was the light of men.’ It was this Logos who said, ‘I am the Way and the Truth; the Resurrection and the Life’: ‘I am the Bread of Life,’ or the manna: ‘I came down from heaven’: this is the bread which descendeth from heaven, that a man may eat thereof and not die’ . . . ‘If any man eat of this bread he shall live in the age: and the bread that I (the Logos) will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. (Eureka -- Vol 1 -- Chap 2 -- Sec 3: 8. The Hidden Manna)

Jesus was not literally the Word. He was the word "made flesh". (John:14). Jesus is the complete manifestation of the logos - "in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Deity bodily." (Col. 2:9). It was the "logos" which was in the beginning with God, not Jesus. When the "word was made flesh" (John 1:14) then, and then only, Jesus became the "Word".
Jesus is called the Word (Rev. 19:13 cf. 1 John 1:1; Luke 1:2) since his doctrine and words came from his Father (John 7:16; 17:14). He was the logos lived out in speech and action, not merely written on scrolls. (wrested scriptures)

Jesus Christ in the day of his weakness, had two sides—the one, DEITY; the other, MAN—the Eternal Christ-Power or the anointing spirit veiled in, and manifested through the flesh created from the ground; which flesh had Willfully transgressed the Divine Law, the penalty of which sent it back into the dust from whence it came. This is Jesus Christ the true Deity, whom to know is life eternal. (Dr. Thomas letter to Robert Robert July 17th, 1869)

This flesh which inhabited Paradise, like all the beasts. Was “very good” of its sort, is described as “sin” and “sin’s flesh,” because it sinned or transgressed the Eden law. Our flesh is the same as Adam’s before he sinned, only the worse for wear: for Paul says that we sinned in him, and he was sinless before he sinned; and we were as much in his loins when he was sinless, as in the act of sinning. His flesh undefiled by sin is constitutionally the same as the flesh of his posterity defiled legally thereby. The Christ-Deity veiled himself in the Adamic nature defiled by sin, in order that he might condemn sin in the flesh and to condemn sin to death in the nature which, although created “very good,” had legally defiled itself by transgression of the Eden law. This purpose would have been defeated if he had veiled himself in a clean nature. (Dr. Thomas letter to Robert Robert July 17th, 1869)

To say that the Man, Jesus, was corporeally clean, or pure, holy, spotless, and undefiled, is in effect to say that he was not “made of a woman;” for Scripture teaches, that nothing born of woman can possibly be clean: but it is testified that he was “born of a woman;” he must therefore necessarily have been born corporeally unclean. Hence, it is written of him in Psalm 51:5, “I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.” He therefore prays, “Purge me with sop and I shall be clean; wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.” This prayer has been answered, and he has been “Washed thoroughly from his (corporeal) iniquity, and cleansed from his sin;” so that now he has a clean nature, which is spirit and divine—“the Lord the Spirit”—once dead as to flesh, but now alive as Spirit for evermore.—(Rev. 1:18.) (Dr. Thomas letter to Robert Robert July 17th, 1869)

I believe that Christ pre-existed but Jesus didn't. It may sound complicated but it isn't really.

It's about God Manifestation - ultimately the angels the "focalisations of the Spirit", Jesus Christ and the Saints are all manifestations of God (which is why Jesus says "does it not say in your law Ye are gods?").

The exhortation is that we need to behave like that now, while we are in the flesh, because once the flesh is removed we will only be as much Spirit as has been developed in us.

The Christ descended on Jesus at his Baptism Matthew 3-16

In contrast to orthodox Christians, Valentinians did not believe that Christ was joined to Jesus at his birth. Instead, they insisted that Christ became joined to Jesus only at the beginning of his ministry i.e. at his baptism. The dove which descends upon Jesus at the baptism was understtod as Christ descending on Jesus and joining with him (Irenaeus Against Heresies 1:7:2, 1:15:3, 3:16:1, 3:10:3, Excerpts of Theodotus 61:6,26:1 Hippolytus Refutation 6:35:3). Christ is "the Name which came down upon Jesus in the dove and redeemed him" (Excerpts of Theodotus 22:6 cf. Gospel of Philip 70:34-36).Jesus was anointed with the Spirit of God at his baptism in the Jordan.

And he died at the .departure of the Spirit which had descended upon him in the Jordan, not that it became separate but was withdrawn in order that death might also operate on him, since how did the body die when life was present in him? (Theodotus 61:6)

Proof:

How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. (Acts 10:38). (Christadelphian Instructor 1891)

The dove represented the anointing spirit of God. This spirit entered the body of Jesus Christ and remained in him until Jesus was crucified. 

So we read...

Matthew 3:16 Having been baptized, Jesus immediately rose up from the water and look! The heavens were opened up and he saw the spirit of God descending as if a dove coming upon him.

God giveth not the spirit by measure unto him," John 3:34

Again, in his gospel narrative (John 1:14), he says: —" The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth," from which it is evident that Christ was a divine manifestation—an embodiment of Deity in flesh—Emmanuel, God with us. " God giveth not the spirit by measure unto him," says the same apostle (John 3:34). (Christendom Astray Chapter 6)

The spirit descended upon him in bodily shape at his baptism in the Jordan, and took possession of him. This was the anointing which constituted him Christ (or the anointed), and which gave him the superhuman powers of which he showed himself possessed. (Christendom Astray Chapter 6)

This is clear from the words of Peter, in his address to the Gentiles in the house of Cornelius —(Acts 10:38)—" God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed." (Christendom Astray Chapter 6)

This statement alone is sufficient to disprove the popular view of Jesus been co-equal and co-eternal. If he were "very God" in his character and nature as Son, why was it necessary he should be "anointed" with spirit and power? (Christendom Astray Chapter 6)

Jesus did no miracles before his anointing. He had no power of himself. This is his own declaration: "I can of mine own sell do nothing" (John 5:30). "The Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works" (John 14:10). At his death Jesus was left to the utter helplessness of his own humanity, he felt the severe mental and physical pain of his suffering that hour and cried out, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" (Matt. 27:46). (Christendom Astray Chapter 6)

Before his anointing, he was simply the " body prepared " for the divine manifestation that was to take place through him. The preparation of this body commenced with the Spirit's action on Mary, and concluded when Jesus, being thirty years of age, stood approved in the perfection of a sinless and mature character. (Christendom Astray Chapter 6)

After the Spirit's descent upon him, he was the full manifestation of God in the flesh. The Father, by the Spirit, tabernacled in Christ among men. "God was in Christ," says Paul, " Reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them." (Christendom Astray Chapter 6)

When raised from the dead and glorified, he was exalted to "all power in heaven and earth"; his human nature was swallowed up in the divine; the flesh changed to spirit. Hence, as he now exists, " In him dwelleth all the fullness of the God-head bodily " (Col. 2:9). He is now the corporealisation of life-spirit as it exists in the Deity. (Christendom Astray Chapter 6)

The effluent spirit (out-flowing spirit) forsook Jesus when he exclaimed upon the cross, "My AIL (EL), my AIL (EL), why hast Thou forsaken me?" The effluent power by which he had taught and worked was withdrawn from him for some time before he died. The Spirit no longer rested upon the Cherub, yet that Cherub continued to live as other men. In process of time he expired.(Phanerosis)

Dr Thomas in Phanerosis is saying that the out-flowing anointing spirit was taken away from Jesus when he cried out upon the cross, "My God, my God, why hast Thou forsaken me?" 

The out-flowing power by which he had taught and worked was withdrawn from him for some time before he died. The Spirit no longer rested upon Jesus, yet Jesus continued to live as other men. In process of time he expired. 

By Cherub Dr Thomas understands this as a vehicle for the spirit to ride

not that the spirit became separate from him but was withdrawn in order that death might also operate on him, since how did the body die when life was present in it?  (Theodotus 61:6)

 

Jesus did not become the Christ until His baptism. Jesus, up until his baptism, was simply the body that God had prepared for the Christ to indwell. The Spirit descended upon Jesus at his baptism in the Jordan, and took possession of Him. This was the anointing which constituted him as the Christ, and which gave Him the superhuman powers which He demonstrated during His ministry.