Prophecies about the corruption of the church

Prophecies about the corruption of the church

There are many prophecies in the bible about the the corruption of the church but what do the Gnostic Gospels say

The Acts of Peter and the Twelve Apostles

For many in the churches have shown partiality to the rich, because they also are sinful, and they give occasion for others to sin. But judge them with uprightness, so that your ministry may be glorified, and that my name also, may be glorified in the churches." The disciples answered and said, "Yes, truly this is what is fitting to do."

James 2:4,  My brothers,show no partiality as you hold the faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory. ..(4) have you not shown partiality among yourselves, and become judges with evil thoughts?

On the Origin of the World

And out of envy the authorities mixed their seed with them, in hopes of polluting them. They could not. Then when the blessed beings appeared in luminous form, they appeared in various ways. And each one of them, starting out in his land, revealed his (kind of) knowledge to the visible church constituted of the modelled forms of perdition. It (viz., the church) was found to contain all kinds of seed, because of the seed of the authorities that had mixed with it.

forms of perdition reminds me of 

 2Th 2:3Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

The Second Treatise of the Great Seth

we were hated and persecuted, not only by those who are ignorant (gentiles, pagans), but also by those who think that they are advancing the name of Christ (so-called Chistians), since they were unknowingly empty, not knowing who they are, like dumb animals. 

revelatin 2:8 “And to the [a]angel of the church in Smyrna write,

‘These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life: 

9 “I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a [b]synagogue of Satan. 

10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

The Odes Of Solomon

Ode 38

All the poisons of error, and pains of death which are considered sweetness.
And the corrupting of the Corruptor, I saw when the bride who was corrupting was adorned, and the bridegroom who corrupts and is corrupted.
And I asked the Truth, Who are these? And He said to me: This is the Deceiver and the Error.
And they imitate the Beloved and His Bride, and they cause the world to err and corrupt it.
And they invite many to the wedding feast, and allow them to drink the wine of their intoxication;
So they cause them to vomit up their wisdom and their knowledge, and prepare for them mindlessness.
Then they abandon them; and so they stumble about like mad and corrupted men.
Since there is no understanding in them, neither do they seek it.
But I have been made wise so as not to fall into the hands of the Deceivers, and I myself rejoiced because the Truth had gone with me.


17 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and talked with me, saying [a]to me, “Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters, 2 with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication.”3 So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4 The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the filthiness of [b]her fornication. 5 And on her forehead a name was written:

MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT,
THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS
AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS

OF THE EARTH.
6 I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement.

The Gospel of Thomas 

(39) Jesus said, The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered, nor have they allowed those who want to enter to go inside. You should be shrewd as snakes and innocent as doves.

The Pharisees here are a symbol of all false religion and undoubtedly today the Lord would speak this way of the priests and clergy of orthodox Christianity, the churches have lost the keys. The keys of knowledge are the one true faith and hope of Abraham the promises made to him. Therefore we must have the faith as that of Abraham for those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham Gal 3:9 who is the father of us all saying 105 cp. Rom 4:11,12,16. Now his faith and ours is this that the gentiles shall be blessed in him and this promises was made to him before the law and his seed who is the Christ 

39) ## Jesus said, "The Pharisees and the scribes [who are still operating today through the Triple Crown Power controlled by the Vatican] have taken the keys of Knowledge [the higher/inward (spiritual) meaning of the scriptures] and hidden them [behind the fleshly locks of earthly types and images]. They themselves have not entered [in their depraved condition and deceptive practices they have shut themselves out of the Kingdom], nor have they allowed to enter those who wish to [these have become "wolves in sheep's clothing" who subvert the knowledge of truth that they may continue to "lord it over you" for the glory of men]. #You, however, be as wise as serpents [the Pharisees and scribes (Mat 23:33, 12:34 etc.. we must be aware that the devil will use many deceptions and tricks through your own flesh and the people around you to find ways "to accuse you day and night before the Father"] and as innocent as doves [we are to take great care not to harm anyone, even "those who hate you and despitefully use you" for they are all your brothers and some are there for the sole purpose of the Elect (doves/peacemakers) that they may be tested and refined in the Way]." 

saying 40 Jesus said, "A grapevine has been planted outside the father. And because it is not sound, it will be plucked out by the root and will perish."


But what orthodox churches of Christianity called the error was planted outside of the father’s wises in the days of the apostles and Paul also tells us that wolfs will come in and destroy the truth and this evenly gave birth to the man of lawlessness when Constine removed that which was holding it back.. This grapevine cannot bear fruit (everlasting life) and those in it are already dead not knowing the knowledge of the truth that brings everlasting life. 

40)# Jesus said, "A grapevine [religion] has been planted outside of the Father, but being unsound [in health being rooted in the depraved imaginations of men], it will be pulled up by its roots [that it has no chance to come back] and destroyed [by Jesus the true vine (Jn. 15:1)]."

(102) Jesus said, Shame on the Pharisees.[today, the Churches that spread the wrong message to gain power and profit for themselves like most Churches that call themselves 'Catholic', 'Christian' or 'Evangelic', Mormons] They are like a dog sleeping in the cattle manger. It does not eat or let the cattle eat. [They will spiritually starve, because instead of drinking from Jesus Christ's mouth, they spread lies either because they have their own agenda or they simply just don't see the truth and don't let their 'believers' drink from Jesus Christ's words either]."

102) Jesus said, "Woe to the Pharisees [who hid the Key of Knowledge], for they are like a dog [unclean animal] sleeping [spiritually dead in law] in the manger [where the animals (beasts) food is kept] of oxen [the Laity who are to tread out the corn (the Word of God)], for neither does he eat ["if anyone is not willing to work, neither let him eat"] nor does he let the oxen eat [the Laity are always discouraged or kept from doing so by religious leaders who love to "lord it over them"]."




In The Gospel of Judas we can we the corruption of the church


THE GOSPEL OF JUDAS
THE DISCIPLES SEE THE TEMPLE AND DISCUSS IT

They [said, “We have seen] a great [house (Ezekiel 8:6) with a large] altar [in it, and] twelve men (Ezekiel 8:11,16)— they are the priests, we would say—and a name; and a crowd of people is waiting at that altar, [until] the priests [… and receive] the offerings. [But] we kept waiting.” [Jesus said], “What are [the priests] like?” They [said, “Some …] two weeks; [some] sacrifice their own children, others their wives, in praise [and] humility with each other; some sleep with men; some are involved in [slaughter]; some commit a multitude of sins and deeds of lawlessness. And the men who stand [before] the altar invoke your [name], [39] and in all the deeds of their deficiency, the sacrifices are brought to completion […].” After they said this, they were quiet, for they were troubled.

JESUS OFFERS AN ALLEGORICAL INTERPRETATION OF THE VISION OF THE TEMPLE

Jesus said to them, “Why are you troubled? Truly I say to you, all the priests who stand before that altar invoke my name. Again I say to you, my name has been written on this […] of the generations of the stars through the human generations. [And they] have planted trees without fruit, in my name, in a shameful manner.” Jesus said to them, “Those you have seen receiving the offerings at the altar—that is who you are. That is the god you serve, (2 Thess 2:3,4) and you are those twelve men you have seen. The cattle you have seen brought for sacrifice are the many people you lead astray [40] before that altar. […] will stand and make use of my name in this way, and generations of the pious will remain loyal to him. After him another man will stand there from [the fornicators], and another [will] stand there from the slayers of children, and another from those who sleep with men, and those who abstain, and the rest of the people of pollution and lawlessness and error, and those who say, ‘We are like angels’; they are the stars that bring everything to its conclusion. For to the human generations it has been said, ‘Look, God has received your sacrifice from the hands of a priest’—that is, a minister of error. But it is the Lord, the Lord of the universe, who commands, ‘On the last day they will be put to shame.’” [41] Jesus said [to them], “Stop sac[rificing …] which you have […] over the altar, since they are over your stars and your angels and have already come to their conclusion there. So let them be [ensnared] before you, and let them go [—about 15 lines missing—] generations […]. A baker cannot feed all creation [42] under [heaven]. And […] to them […] and […] to us and […]. Jesus said to them, “Stop struggling with me. Each of you has his own star, (Jude 13) and every[body—about 17 lines missing—] [43] in […] who has come [… spring] for the tree […] of this aeon […] for a time […] but he has come to water God’s paradise, and the [generation] that will last, because [he] will not defile the [walk of life of] that generation, but […] for all eternity.”

what the disciples have seen in Jerusalem is interpreted as a foreshadowing of the emerging Catholic church

The vision of the temple and twelve priests should first be understood from an historical point of view.The Gospel of Judas challenges the idea that God wants people to die as martyrs—just as it challenges the idea that God wanted Jesus to die. Whoever wrote this gospel—and the author is anonymous—is challenging church leaders who teach that.

The Testimony of Truth

The foolish - thinking in their heart that if they confess, "We are Christians," in word only (but) not with power, while giving themselves over to ignorance, to a human death, not knowing where they are going nor who Christ is, thinking that they will live, when they are (really) in error - hasten towards the principalities and authorities. They fall into their clutches because of the ignorance that is in them. For (if) only words which bear testimony were effecting salvation, the whole world would endure this thing and would be saved. But it is in this way that they drew error to themselves. ...
... (3 lines unrecoverable)
... they do not know that they will destroy themselves. If the Father were to desire a human sacrifice, he would become vainglorious.

For the Son of Man clothed himself with their first-fruits; he went down to Hades and performed many mighty works. He raised the dead therein; and the world-rulers of darkness became envious of him, for they did not find sin in him. But he also destroyed their works from among men, so that the lame, the blind, the paralytic, the dumb, (and) the demon-possessed were granted healing. And he walked upon the waters of the sea. For this reason he destroyed his flesh from [...] which he [...]. And he became [...] salvation [...] his death ...
... (4 lines unrecoverable)
... everyone [...] how many they are! They are blind guides, like the disciples. They boarded the ship; at about thirty stadies, they saw Jesus walking on the sea. These are empty martyrs, since they bear witness only to themselves. And yet they are sick, and they are not able to raise themselves.

But when they are "perfected" with a (martyr's) death, this is the thought that they have within them: "If we deliver ourselves over to death for the sake of the Name we will be saved." These matters are not settled in this way. But through the agency of the wandering stars they say they have "completed" their futile "course", and [...] say, [...]. But these [...] they have delivered themselves ...
... (7 lines unrecoverable)


... but they resemble [...] them. They do not have the word which gives life. (The Testimony of Truth)

The Gnostic Redeemed Redeemer Not A Myth

 The Redeemed Redeemer 

or

The Gnostic Redeemer Myth

If anyone has read any books on Gnosticism they may of come a cross the term(s) redeemed redeemer or saved savior I find it strange that this called a myth by many scholars instead of a teaching in a belief system. I believe this is a doctrine not a myth we find this teaching in many Gnostic texts and in the Bible itself.   

Karen L. King writes in her book What is Gnosticism

Reitzenstein had argued that a key feature of the Gnostic redeemer myth was the shared identity of the savior with the saved....the term redeemed redeemer itself never appears in any primary text and its content was determined only by reference to the Gnostic salvation myth constructed by Reitzenstein, Bultmann, and Jonas. What is Gnosticism p 143

Speaking on hymn of the pear the acts of Thomas Hans Jonas writes: 

We can confidently take the King's Son to be the Savior, a definite divine figure, and not just the personification of the human soul in general. Yet this unique position does not prevent him from undergoing in his own person the full force of human destiny, even to the extent that he the savior himself has to be saved. Hans Jonas Gnostic Religion

Some quotes from the The Gnostic Bible

He who was redeemed redeemed the world. The Gnostic Bible p 282

You are saved in him who was saved. The Gnostic Bible 364

Speaking on hymn of the pear the acts of Thomas: 

The son has a double or twin role, for he appears to be both savior and the soul that he

saves; he saves and must himself be saved. The Gnostic Bible 387

In this allegory of redemption, as Hans Jonas points out, the savior himself must be saved—or rather, must save himself. The Gnostic Bible 387

Early Christian teaching on the saved savior or Redeemed Redeemer

the Odes of Solomon 

Ode 8

20) Pray and increase, and abide in the love of the Lord;
21) And the beloved ones in the Beloved, and those who are protected in Him Who liveth, and those who are saved in Him Who was saved.
22) And ye shall be found incorrupt in all ages, on account of the Name of your Father.

Ode 17


Then I was crowned by my God, and my crown was living.
And I was justified by my Lord, for my salvation is incorruptible.
I have been freed from vanities, and am not condemned.
My chains were cut off by His hands, I received the face and likeness of a new person, and I walked in Him and was saved.

Ode 42

17 And open for us the door by which we may come out to You; for we perceive that our death does not touch You.
18 May we also be saved with You, because You are our Savior.
19 Then I heard their voice, and placed their faith in my heart.
20 And I placed my name upon their head, because they are free and they are mine.
Hallelujah.

address of the Redeemed Redeemer with a Christological doxology

The Redeemed One becomes the Redeemer Michael Lattke The odes of Solomon 244

From this we can see that the Redeemed Redeemer refers to the savior who was saved from death

As I have said above this is not myth but a doctrine this teaching can be found in the Bible and the Nag Hammadi Library, the Odes of Solomon, the hymn of the pear in the acts of Thomas

The Redeemed Redeemer is not a myth but a doctrine or teaching. 

So why would Jesus need to be saved the bible answers this because of sin and death. His body was as unclean as the bodies of those for whom he died; for he was born of a woman, and "not one" can bring a clean body out of a defiled body; for "that", says Jesus himself, "which is born of the flesh is flesh" (John 3:6)

Sin, is an equivalent expression for human nature.

Jesus needed to be saved from human nature or sinful flesh

The first thing I think we should look at is identity does the savior of the Gnostic text have a shared identity with the saved

The Nag Hammadi Library text of Melchizedek:

Furthermore, they will say of him that he is unbegotten, though he has been begotten, (that) he does not eat, even though he eats, (that) he does not drink, even though he drinks, (that) he is uncircumcised, though he has been circumcised, (that) he is unfleshly, though he has come in the flesh, (that) he did not come to suffering, <though> he came to suffering, (that) he did not rise from the dead, <though> he arose from the dead. NHS p. 600

This is a remarkable passage, which speaks out about the false doctrine of doceticism (docetic heretics those who will deny the physical reality of Jesus's nature) 
and confirms orthodox teaching on life death and resurrection of Jesus. 

It also shows that Jesus had a shred identity with the saved he was circumcised he came in the flesh

The Gospel of Thomas saying 28

28 Jesus said: I stood in the midst of the world, and I appeared to them in the flesh. I found them all drunk; I found none of them thirsting, and my soul was afflicted for the sons of men; for they are blind in their heart, and they do not see that they came empty into the world, (and) empty they seek to leave the world again. But now they are drunk. When they have thrown off their wine, they will repent

Here Jesus came in the Flesh his soul was afflicted for the children of men.  
"I appeared to them in the flesh" is translated by LAYTON to read "I was shown forth incarnate" 

Incarnate means “having a bodily form.” ... The prefix in- means “in” and caro means “flesh,” so incarnate means “in the flesh.”

We should compare this saying with saying 101 to find out the meaning of the word flesh Jesus has 2 mother's his birth mother after the flesh and his true mother the holy spirit

The Gospel of Thomas saying 101

Jesus said, "Those who do not hate their [father] and their mother as I do cannot be [disciples] of me. And those who [do not] love their [father and] their mother as I do cannot be [disciples of] me. For my birth mother gave me [death.] But my true [mother] gave me life." April Deconick translation

Jesus's birth mother could only give him death which we understand to be our sinful nature. 

Here in saying 101 death is an equivalent expression for human nature or the flesh. So here again in the Gospel of Thomas we have Jesus the Savior identitied with those he came to save by birth and natural nature the flesh

 The Gospel of Philip:

Jesus revealed himself [at the] Jordan River as the fullness of the Kingdom of Heaven. He who was begotten before everything, was begotten anew. He who was once anointed, was anointed anew. He who was redeemed, in turn redeemed others.

In some Gnostic texts, the man Jesus is separate from the heavenly Christ (or Logos) which descended into him during his baptism in the Jordan.

This shows that the some gnostic groups understood that Jesus first needed redemption for himself before he could redeem those for whom he came to die for. Jesus is thus the redeemed redeemer coming in our sinful nature. The Savor himself was in need of redemption.

Why should Jesus be baptized?

By this act, then, Jesus associated himself openly with the sinners he came to save. By it he proclaimed the essential one-ness of his nature with theirs. He too needed this baptism, inasmuch as he also was a member of this fallen race needing redemption. It was an acknowledgement that the great truth taught by John: “all flesh is grass”, applied to him also. He needed the benefits of his own sacrifice. Now, as well as at the end of the days of his flesh, he was “numbered with the transgressors” (Is. 53: 12). Harry Whittaker, Studies in the Gospels

Jesus's sanctification started at his baptism and ended with his resurrection after his death on the cross:

Hence, in the First Apocryphon of James, Jesus says to James that, during the time of his crucifixion, his (Jesus’) redemption ‘will be near’. Jesus: “Behold, I shall reveal to you everything of this mystery. For they will seize me the day after tomorrow. But my redemption will be near.” (First Apocryphon of James)

Further light is thrown on these baptismal records by the Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs, where the anointing of the Messianic Priest-king is described in these terms : " The heavens shall be opened, and from the Temple of glory shall come upon him sanctification, with the Father's voice as from Abraham to Isaac. And the glory of the Most High shall be uttered over him, and the spirit of understanding and sanctification shall rest upon him  The quotation is from Test. Levi. xviii, 6-7 (Cf. Test. Judah xxiv, I-3,\rhich is to the same effect). The Testaments, according to Charles, date from the second century B.C Hugh j. Schonfield  according to the Hebrews  p245 

"And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the Truth” (Jno. 17:19).

The Master, according to himself, had to be sanctified in order to sanctify his brethren. The principles of his redemption laid down the foundation for ours, namely, the condemnation of sin in the flesh, and the declaration of the Righteousness of God. In him, God was declared Right to require the destruction of the diabolos through death, and we must seek to likewise crucify the flesh (Gal. 5:24), and die daily (1 Cor. 15:31) in our endeavours to seek first God’s kingdom and righteousness.

Each year on the Day of Atonement, the High Priest entered into the Holy of Holies, offering a sacrifice for himself first, and having been sanctified, he offered to the people. These two aspects foreshadowed the work of Messiah, for speaking of these things, the Apostle wrote:

“For such an high priest became us … who needeth not daily, as those high priests to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people’s: for this he did once when he offered up himself.” (Heb. 7:26, 27).

The Scriptures could hardly be more explicit: just as the High Priest offered for himself and then for the people, “this he did once …” when he offered up himself. Of course, Messiah had no committed sin to be forgiven for—but he did have the root cause of sin within himself. He was “the likeness of sinful flesh” (Rom. 8:3), as it is testified of him:

“… be ye reconciled to God. For he hath made him sin for us, who knew no sin: that we might be made the righteousness of God in him” (2 Cor. 5:21).

Every High Priest taken from among men ... for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity. And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins" (Heb. 5:1-3).

Heb 5:7  Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

Here we have Jesus the Savor who was saved from death this is the bibles teaching of a Saved Savor or Redeemed Redeemer who was saved from death.

The fact that Christ had to plead with God to save him from death rules out any possibility of him being God in person. After Christ's resurrection, death had "no more dominion over him" (Rom. 6:9), implying that beforehand it did.

The Redemption of Jesus is the Archetype for Redemption 

In the Tripartite Tractate, the Son (Jesus) is in need of redemption, because he had become a man. It is the heavenly Word which ‘descended upon him’ that offered him ‘redemption’: “Not only do humans need redemption, but also the angels, too... even the Son himself, who has the position of redeemer of the Totality, needed redemption as well - he who had become man - since he gave himself for each thing which we need, we in the flesh, who are his Church. Now, when he first received redemption from the word which had descended upon him, all the rest received redemption from him, namely those who had taken him to themselves.” (Tripartite Tractate)

The interpretation of Knowledge::

The man ... (11 lines missing)... this is the name. The [...] he emitted himself and he relinquished his majesty, taking scorn in exchange for  the name. for our sakes he endured the scorn. He appeared as flesh, and came as a provider.  He has no need of the glory that is not his; he has his own glory with the name, which is the Son. Now he came that we might become glorious through his humiliation as he dwelled in these humble places. And through him who was reproached we receive the forgiveness of sins. And through the one who was reproached and the one who was redeemed we receive grace.

The Nag Hammadi Library text of Melchizedek:

He included himself in the living offering, together with your offspring. He offered them up as an offering to the All. For it is not cattle that you will offer up for sin(s) of unbelief, and for the ignorances, and (for) all the wicked deeds which they will do NHS p. 601

"Such an High Priest became us ... who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's, for this he did once, when he offered up himself" (Heb. 7:26-27).

If Christ's offering did not comprehend himself how are we to understand the statement of Paul (in Heb 7:27)

The Jewish high priest had to make an offering firstly for his own sins, and then for those of the people (Heb. 5:1-3). Christ's sacrifice had this same two-fold structure. Although he did not have any sins personally, Jesus was still of human nature, and needed salvation from death. This salvation was provided by God on account of Christ's own sacrifice; thus Jesus died both to gain his own salvation, and also to make ours possible.

The Lord's sacrifice was necessary for his own redemption. His sacrifice was a public demonstration that his flesh was rightly related to death and a declaration of the righteousness of God that required the offering of his life in devotion to Him. By his sacrifice the ungodly propensities (diabolos) of his nature was destroyed (Heb. 2:14; 9:12; 7:27), thus providing for the granting of immortality.

Here this passage teaches that Christ the high  priest offered his own body for his own redemption He offered himself for himself and his brothers his offspring in the living offering that is his life as a living sacrifice

Now we come to the Gospel of Philip

78. The Lord was conceived (born again) from what is imperishable, from God. The [Lord arose] from among the dead. But [He did not come into being as he was. Rather [his body] was [completely] perfect. It was of flesh, and this [flesh is indeed] true flesh.¹ [Yet our flesh] is not true, but rather a mirror-image of the true [flesh]. (¹Jn 1:14, 20:27, II-Jn 7; NHS p. 174

This passage shows that the spiritual body is corporeal (tangible) and it has flesh and this flesh is true flesh, which is called spiritual flesh thus spiritual body but our flesh is only a shadow of the true like Adam who was only a type of him who was to come (Romans 5:14)

So before his resurrection from the dead Jesus had human flesh or human nature which is called in the text "our flesh is not true flesh" but after he arose from among the dead he had a new body imperishable, from God 

Does the Gospel of Thomas teach the Trinity?

Does the gospel of Thomas teach the trinity


Saying 61 tells us this


61) Jesus said, "Two will rest on a bed: the one will die, and other will live." Salome said to him, "Who are You, man, that You, as though from the One, have come up on my couch and eaten from my table?" Jesus said to her, "I am He who exists from the Undivided One. I was given some of the things of my Father." <Salome said,> "I am Your disciple." <Jesus said to her,> "Therefore I say, if he is <undivided>, he will be filled with light, but if he is divided, he will be filled with darkness." 

(Thomas O. Lambdin (1988)


The Undivided one is the Father Jesus was given some of the things of his Father


Therefore Jesus and the Undivided Father are not the same person

In Logion 61 of the Gospel of Thomas, Jesus engages in a conversation with Salome regarding the nature of his identity. Salome asks Jesus who he is, expressing surprise that he has come to her couch and eaten from her table. Jesus responds by stating that he comes from the Undivided One and has been given some of the things of his Father.

From this logion, it can be inferred that Jesus and the Undivided One (referring to the Father) are distinct entities. Jesus speaks of receiving things from his Father, indicating a relationship between them. This logion does not explicitly address the concept of the Trinity, nor does it provide detailed theological explanations about the nature of Jesus' relationship with the Father.

It is worth noting that interpretations of this logion may vary among different Christian traditions and theological perspectives. Some groups, such as the Christadelphians, interpret this logion as supporting their rejection of the Trinity doctrine. They argue that it emphasizes the distinction between Jesus and the Father and their separate identities.

It is important to recognize that the Gospel of Thomas is one among many texts that contribute to the diverse range of early Christian thought. Different interpretations and understandings of theological concepts, including the Trinity, exist within Christianity.

(13) Jesus said to his disciples, "Compare me to something and tell me what I resemble." Simon Peter said to him, " You are like a just messenger." Matthew said to him, "An intelligent philosopher is what you resemble." Thomas said to him, "Teacher, my mouth utterly will not let me say what you resemble." Jesus said, "I am not your (sing.) teacher, for you have drunk and become intoxicated from the bubbling wellspring that I have personally measured out. And he took him, withdrew, and said three sayings to him. Now, when Thomas came to his companions they asked him, "What did Jesus say to you?" Thomas said to them, "If I say to you (plur.) one of the sayings that he said to me, you will take stones and stone me, and fire will come out of the stones and burn you up." 

(Stephen Patterson and Marvin Meyer 1998)

Notice here that Simon Peter and Matthew describe Jesus as a just messenger or a intelligent philosopher vs the son of the Living God in the canonical gospels 

30) Jesus said, "Where there are three gods, they are gods. Where there are two or one, I am with him."
Translated by Thomas O. Lambdin (from Coptic)

(30) Jesus said "Where there are three, they are without God, and where there is only one, I say, I am with that one."
Translated by Marvin Meyer (from Greek)

The Jews had and worshipped several Gods at that time - Moses had to fight with that fact already and Jesus encountered it again. Even though the Trinity was formed after Jesus' crucifixion - Father, Son, Holy Spirit - it can be assumed that Jesus was aware of the plans for his future, so here Jesus is having a slap against Trinitarian doctrine, declaring that a doctrine of 3 gods is polytheistic if one understands that each of the gods is a separate god. Thus there is only one true god and where there is one god alone Jesus is with that him,

Reading it again,

30) Jesus said, "Where there are three gods, they are gods. Where there are two or one, I am with him."

Jesus is denouncing the idea of the trinity, whether that be 3 in 1 or three separate beings.
To Jesus, there is only the Undivided One.

So when I read this I see Jesus denouncing a cluster of three gods, also known as a trinity of gods.

This teaches us that the Father is the Undivided One, the Deity is not divided into 3 persons.

But the Coptic text is corrupted and the Greek like the Coptic is nonsense as well April Deconick in her translation of the GTh "The original Gospel of Thomas in Translation" has reconstructed the text: Jesus says:  Jesus said, “Where two or more are gathered in My name, I am with them.”Jesus said, ‘Split a piece of wood or lift a stone, and you will see My Father’s handiwork.”

The interpretation you provided for Logion 30 of the Gospel of Thomas is a valid interpretation within the context of rejecting the Trinitarian doctrine. You argue that Jesus is denouncing the idea of the Trinity and emphasizing the belief in the Undivided One, the oneness of God. This interpretation suggests that Jesus is asserting his unity with the one true God and challenging the concept of multiple gods or a triune God.

However, it's important to note that Logion 30 is subject to different translations and interpretations due to variations in the available manuscripts. The Coptic and Greek versions of the Gospel of Thomas have slight differences in wording and can lead to divergent understandings.

The translation you cited by April DeConick provides an alternative reading where Jesus speaks about being present when two or more are gathered in his name, emphasizing his divine presence in communal worship or spiritual gatherings. This interpretation focuses on the spiritual presence of Jesus rather than directly addressing the concept of the Trinity.

Overall, the Gospel of Thomas is a complex and enigmatic text, and scholars have different viewpoints on its intended meaning and original teachings. The interpretations of individual sayings can vary based on the translation, textual variants, and the theological lens through which they are examined.

77) Jesus said, "It is I who am the light which is above everything. It is I who now am everything. From Me now that everything comes forth, and up to Me did everything reach. Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift up the stone, and you will find Me there."

This saying is about the Lord Jesus been give all power and authority in heaven and on earth after his resurrection so this saying is speaking about Jesus' new power of providence over the universe

Thus the Lord can now penetrate everything

77) Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift up the stone, and you will find Me there."

108) Jesus said, "He who will drink from my mouth will become like Me. I myself shall become he, and the things that are hidden will become revealed to him."

Thus we too can become equal with Jesus this saying plainly states that the believer who drinks from Jesus’ mouth becomes Jesus

The gospel of thomas does not teach the Trinity 

ChatGPT

You are correct that the Gospel of Thomas does not explicitly teach the doctrine of the Trinity as it is understood in traditional Christian theology. The Gospel of Thomas, being a Gnostic text, presents a unique perspective on spiritual teachings and focuses on the inner wisdom and enlightenment gained through gnosis (knowledge).

The doctrine of the Trinity, which states that God is one being existing in three persons (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit), is a concept that developed within the mainstream Christian tradition over time and is primarily based on interpretations of various biblical texts.

While the Gospel of Thomas contains teachings attributed to Jesus, it does not explicitly address the concept of the Trinity or provide detailed theological explanations in that regard. The emphasis of the text is more on the individual's spiritual journey, self-discovery, and the attainment of inner wisdom.

It is important to recognize that different texts within early Christianity present diverse perspectives, and not all of them delve into the complexities of theological doctrines such as the Trinity. The Gospel of Thomas, in particular, highlights a distinct Gnostic approach to spiritual teachings, focusing on personal revelation and the inner transformation of the individual.

Therefore, if one is seeking explicit teachings on the Trinity, they would typically turn to other canonical texts within the New Testament or later theological writings that address this specific doctrine.

In Logion 13 of the Gospel of Thomas, Jesus engages in a conversation with his disciples regarding their perceptions of him. Simon Peter compares Jesus to a just messenger, and Matthew compares him to an intelligent philosopher. However, when it is Thomas' turn to respond, he states that he cannot adequately express what Jesus resembles.

This logion highlights the diverse perspectives and understandings of Jesus among his disciples. It contrasts with the canonical Gospels where Simon Peter confesses Jesus as the "Messiah, the Son of the living God" (Matthew 16:16). The Gospel of Thomas emphasizes the unique and enigmatic nature of Jesus, suggesting that he cannot be easily confined to a single role or title.

It is important to note that the Gospel of Thomas is a Gnostic text and presents a distinct perspective on Jesus and his teachings. It focuses on the inner spiritual journey and the acquisition of gnosis (knowledge) rather than specific doctrinal beliefs. Consequently, the descriptions given by the disciples in this logion reflect their limited understanding of Jesus at that moment.

The differences in portrayal between the Gospel of Thomas and the canonical Gospels can be attributed to the different theological contexts and intentions of the texts. The canonical Gospels aim to present a comprehensive narrative of Jesus' life, teachings, and identity, while the Gospel of Thomas prioritizes a more esoteric and mystical exploration of Jesus' wisdom and the disciple's quest for enlightenment.

Logion 77 in the Gospel of Thomas emphasizes the all-encompassing presence of Jesus as the light above everything. It speaks to his divine nature and suggests his omnipresence. The saying highlights the spiritual significance of Jesus, who is portrayed as the source from which everything comes forth and to which everything reaches. The imagery of finding Jesus even in the splitting of wood or lifting of a stone conveys the idea of his pervasive presence.

While the BASF provides a framework for understanding the beliefs of specific Christian groups, it does not directly address Logion 77 or offer a specific interpretation of this saying. The interpretation of Logion 77 may vary among different individuals and Christian traditions. It is important to study the saying within the context of the Gospel of Thomas and consider various scholarly interpretations to gain a more comprehensive understanding of its meaning.

The Birmingham Amended Statement of Faith (BASF) is a specific doctrinal statement followed by certain Christian groups, including the Christadelphians. While the BASF provides a framework for understanding their beliefs, it does not directly address or interpret individual sayings from the Gospel of Thomas, such as Logion 77.

Logion 77 in the Gospel of Thomas emphasizes the all-encompassing presence of Jesus as the light above everything. The saying highlights the spiritual significance of Jesus and the idea that everything originates from him and reaches back to him. The imagery of being present in the splitting of wood or lifting of a stone conveys his pervasive presence.

Regarding the belief of Christadelphians, it is true that they do not believe in the pre-existence of Jesus. According to their beliefs, Jesus was begotten by God through the Holy Spirit and was a mortal man, sharing in human nature and experiencing the effects of Adam's transgression.

While the BASF provides a theological framework for understanding Christadelphian beliefs, it does not offer a specific interpretation of Logion 77 or address the concept of Jesus as the light above everything. Interpretations of this saying may vary among different individuals and Christian traditions. It is important to study the saying within the context of the Gospel of Thomas and consider various scholarly interpretations to gain a more comprehensive understanding of its meaning.

Certainly. According to the BASF and the Christadelphian belief in God manifestation, Jesus is understood as God with us, God manifested in the flesh. The belief is that Jesus, while being of like nature with mortal man, was begotten of God and inhabited by God through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. This belief emphasizes that Jesus, during his natural life, shared in the physical nature of humanity, experiencing the effects of Adam's transgression, including death. Jesus is seen as the representative of Adam's disobedient race and the means through which God accomplished His plan of redemption.

In light of this understanding, Logion 77 in the Gospel of Thomas can be seen as expressing the concept of Jesus as the manifestation of God's light that is above everything. It emphasizes the all-encompassing presence and authority of Jesus, who is the source from which everything comes forth and to whom everything reaches. The saying highlights the divine nature and significance of Jesus as the embodiment of God's light and presence in the world.

Jesus is the Pleroma! The Letter of Peter to Philip The Nag Hammadi library

Jesus is the Pleroma? The Letter of Peter to Philip The Nag Hammadi library

Concerning the fullness, it is I.  I (the christ) was sent down in the body (of Jesus) for the seed that had fallen away. And I came down to their mortal model. But they did not recognize me, thinking I was a mortal. I spoke with the one who is mine, and the one who is mine listened to me just as you also who have listened to me today. And I gave him authority to enter into the inheritance of his fatherhood. And I took him the one who is mine up to my Father. They the Aeons were brought to completion filled with rest through his salvation. Since he was deficiency, he became fullness. The Letter of Peter to Philip (Nag Hammadi Codex VIII, 2)

Here in the The Letter of Peter to Philip Jesus speaks of himself as the  pleroma or the fullness "Concerning the fullness, it is I." However this is the Logos or anointing spirit the Christ speaking through Jesus.

Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that for all fullness to dwell in him;

Col 2:9 because it is in him that all the fullness of the divine nature dwells bodily.

10  That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11  In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

11 And he gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelizers, some as shepherds and teachers, 12 with a view to the readjustment of the holy ones, for ministerial work, for the building up of the body of the Christ, 13 until we all attain to the oneness in the faith and in the accurate knowledge of the Son of God, to a full-grown man, to the measure of stature that belongs to the fullness of the Christ

2 Peter 1:4 ►

Berean Study Bible

Through these He has given us His precious and magnificent promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, now that you have escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.


Hebrews 3:14 ►

New American Standard Bible

For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,


Your blessings shows that you are a "Partaker" now you must be a Partaker of the "FULLNESS" of Christ, the fullness of Christ = the "HARVEST" the seed is the word of God inside of you and when that seed is fully grown you become what the seed truly is, and you are ready to be harvested.


you get it?............................

The Lord Jesus has now been exalted to Heaven, and shares God’s nature. This verse refers to how Jesus is now, after His resurrection, and not how He was during His mortal life on earth


“All the fullness”

The Greek word for "fullness" is pleroma - the same word is also found in Col. 1:19, regarding how all God’s “fullness” dwelt in Jesus. Although the Lord Jesus had human nature, He never sinned; and thus was full of the God’s personality and character. To know Jesus was to know God- for He was and is God’s Son, and indeed the perfect replica of Him in human form.


The fullness which is Christ’s- and His “fullness” is God’s fullness- is shared with us: “Of His fullness have all we received” (Jn. 1:16). In this sense the church, as the body of Christ, is “the fullness of Him that fills all in all” (Eph. 1:23; 4:13). Through knowing Christ, the believers are therefore “filled with all the fullness of God” (Eph. 3:19). So the fact that Jesus had “all the fullness of God” doesn’t make Him "God" Himself in person; because we will not become God Himself in person because we are filled with God’s fullness; any more than a son is his father. In the same way as Christ’s body after His resurrection was filled with the Spirit and nature of God- so will ours be (1 Cor. 15:49; Phil. 3:20,21).

Fulness - "pleroma" - MA full measure11. (10) For NThe Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his G1 ory, the Glory as of the only begotten of the Father), Full of grace and truth.11 (Jn. 1:14) When Moses asked God to show him His Glory, God said He would make all His goodness pass before Moses and He would proclaim His Name. (Ex. 33:18,19) "And the LORD passed before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, the LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth." (Ex. 34:6) Jesus is filled with these divine attributes. He is "an eradiated brightness of His (God's) glory and an exact representation of his very being". (Heb. 1:3 Rhm) Therefore Jesus could say, "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father". (Jn. 14:9)

The implication here, seems to be that those who listen to the word of Christ and are his own will also obtain the joy and fullness of the divine. Like Christ they will become fullness

Joh 1:16 For we all received from out of his fullness, even grace upon grace.

Eph 1:22 He also subjected all things under his feet, and made him head over all things to the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills up all things in all..

Eph 3:19 and to know the love of the Christ which surpasses knowledge, that YOU may be filled with all the fullness of the Deity.

Eph 4:13 until we all attain to the oneness in the faith and in the accurate knowledge of the Son of God, to a full-grown man, to the measure of stature that belongs to the fullness of the Christ

Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that for all fullness to dwell in him;

Col 2:9 because it is in him that all the fullness of the divine nature dwells bodily.

The fullness belongs to the Deity he has shared it with Jesus and us

Since Jesus is dwelling within us it is reasonable to assume that the fullness is to be found within us as well. This will take place in two stages the first is to manifest Jesus' character which we call the Christ consciousness. and the second stage takes place in the summer which we call the other aeon or the age to come

Eph 3:19 and to know the love of the Christ which surpasses knowledge, that YOU may be filled with all the fullness of the Deity.

We like Jesus are to be filled with God fullness

2Peter 1:4 Through these things he has freely given us the precious and very grand promises, that through these YOU may become sharers in divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world through lust.

we will share God's divine nature

2Th 2:14 He called you to this through the good news we declare, so that you may acquire the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

We shall share Jesus' glory

John 17:20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will[a] believe in Me through their word;

21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.

22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:

23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

We are to be made perfect in one Christ in us and the Father in Christ

in the Age to come we shall be one with God by sharing his divine nature and being filled with his fullness

It is not "One God in three Gods," and "Three Gods in One;" but one Deity in a countless multitude revealed in the memorial name, and give an account of in the mystery of godliness

One in many and many in One, One Deity who is all in all

Christ pre-existed but Jesus didn't John 1:1-4

Christ pre-existed but Jesus didn't John 1:1-4

In contrast to orthodox Christians, Valentinians did not believe that Christ was joined to Jesus at his birth. Instead, they insisted that Christ became joined to Jesus only at the beginning of his ministry i.e. at his baptism. The dove which descends upon Jesus at the baptism was understtod as Christ descending on Jesus and joining with him (Irenaeus Against Heresies 1:7:2, 1:15:3, 3:16:1, 3:10:3, Excerpts of Theodotus 61:6,26:1 Hippolytus Refutation 6:35:3). Christ is "the Name which came down upon Jesus in the dove and redeemed him" (Excerpts of Theodotus 22:6 cf. Gospel of Philip 70:34-36).Jesus was anointed with the Spirit of God at his baptism in the Jordan.

In the beginning was the LOGOS - (the outward manifestation of the inward thought)

the LOGOS WAS with God. (Yahweh and His Divine Plan could not be separated)
the LOGOS was God - (God and the Logos are one).

Christ, the Word, who “in the beginning laid the foundations of the earth,” therefore pre-existed before the birth of “the body prepared” of the substance of Mary, and which lay dead in the tomb. That body named Jesus, had no existence until developed by the Christ-Power. Federally, indeed, it pre-existed in the loins of Abraham and in Adam, as Levi was in Abraham, and we in Adam, before birth; but not otherwise. (On the Nature of Christ February 22nd, 1867 by Eusebia J. Lasius)

The pre-existent Christ, or Deity, was not the less Deity because he veiled himself in flesh, in our “sinful flesh,” or “sin’s flesh,” and styled himself JESUS, or he who shall be Saviour. (Dr. Thomas letter to Robert Robert July 17th, 1869)

In reference to those words of Jesus, saying,—“The bread I give for the life of the world is my flesh” (John 6.) For the bread of the Deity is He, who descending out of the heaven, and giveth life to the world.’ This was as much as to say, that the manna was representative of a life-imparting agent from heaven: even the Logos speaking by Jesus. ‘In him’—the Logos, ‘was Life,’ says John ‘and the Life, was the light of men.’ It was this Logos who said, ‘I am the Way and the Truth; the Resurrection and the Life’: ‘I am the Bread of Life,’ or the manna: ‘I came down from heaven’: this is the bread which descendeth from heaven, that a man may eat thereof and not die’ . . . ‘If any man eat of this bread he shall live in the age: and the bread that I (the Logos) will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. (Eureka -- Vol 1 -- Chap 2 -- Sec 3: 8. The Hidden Manna)

Jesus was not literally the Word. He was the word "made flesh". (John:14). Jesus is the complete manifestation of the logos - "in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Deity bodily." (Col. 2:9). It was the "logos" which was in the beginning with God, not Jesus. When the "word was made flesh" (John 1:14) then, and then only, Jesus became the "Word".
Jesus is called the Word (Rev. 19:13 cf. 1 John 1:1; Luke 1:2) since his doctrine and words came from his Father (John 7:16; 17:14). He was the logos lived out in speech and action, not merely written on scrolls. (wrested scriptures)

Jesus Christ in the day of his weakness, had two sides—the one, DEITY; the other, MAN—the Eternal Christ-Power or the anointing spirit veiled in, and manifested through the flesh created from the ground; which flesh had Willfully transgressed the Divine Law, the penalty of which sent it back into the dust from whence it came. This is Jesus Christ the true Deity, whom to know is life eternal. (Dr. Thomas letter to Robert Robert July 17th, 1869)

This flesh which inhabited Paradise, like all the beasts. Was “very good” of its sort, is described as “sin” and “sin’s flesh,” because it sinned or transgressed the Eden law. Our flesh is the same as Adam’s before he sinned, only the worse for wear: for Paul says that we sinned in him, and he was sinless before he sinned; and we were as much in his loins when he was sinless, as in the act of sinning. His flesh undefiled by sin is constitutionally the same as the flesh of his posterity defiled legally thereby. The Christ-Deity veiled himself in the Adamic nature defiled by sin, in order that he might condemn sin in the flesh and to condemn sin to death in the nature which, although created “very good,” had legally defiled itself by transgression of the Eden law. This purpose would have been defeated if he had veiled himself in a clean nature. (Dr. Thomas letter to Robert Robert July 17th, 1869)

To say that the Man, Jesus, was corporeally clean, or pure, holy, spotless, and undefiled, is in effect to say that he was not “made of a woman;” for Scripture teaches, that nothing born of woman can possibly be clean: but it is testified that he was “born of a woman;” he must therefore necessarily have been born corporeally unclean. Hence, it is written of him in Psalm 51:5, “I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.” He therefore prays, “Purge me with sop and I shall be clean; wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.” This prayer has been answered, and he has been “Washed thoroughly from his (corporeal) iniquity, and cleansed from his sin;” so that now he has a clean nature, which is spirit and divine—“the Lord the Spirit”—once dead as to flesh, but now alive as Spirit for evermore.—(Rev. 1:18.) (Dr. Thomas letter to Robert Robert July 17th, 1869)

I believe that Christ pre-existed but Jesus didn't. It may sound complicated but it isn't really.

It's about God Manifestation - ultimately the angels the "focalisations of the Spirit", Jesus Christ and the Saints are all manifestations of God (which is why Jesus says "does it not say in your law Ye are gods?").

The exhortation is that we need to behave like that now, while we are in the flesh, because once the flesh is removed we will only be as much Spirit as has been developed in us.