Saying 61 tells us this
61) Jesus said, "Two will rest on a bed: the one will die, and other will live." Salome said to him, "Who are You, man, that You, as though from the One, have come up on my couch and eaten from my table?" Jesus said to her, "I am He who exists from the Undivided One. I was given some of the things of my Father." <Salome said,> "I am Your disciple." <Jesus said to her,> "Therefore I say, if he is <undivided>, he will be filled with light, but if he is divided, he will be filled with darkness."
(Thomas O. Lambdin (1988)
The Undivided one is the Father Jesus was given some of the things of his Father
Therefore Jesus and the Undivided Father are not the same person
The Undivided one is the Father Jesus was given some of the things of his Father
Therefore Jesus and the Undivided Father are not the same person
In Logion 61 of the Gospel of Thomas, Jesus engages in a conversation with Salome regarding the nature of his identity. Salome asks Jesus who he is, expressing surprise that he has come to her couch and eaten from her table. Jesus responds by stating that he comes from the Undivided One and has been given some of the things of his Father.
From this logion, it can be inferred that Jesus and the Undivided One (referring to the Father) are distinct entities. Jesus speaks of receiving things from his Father, indicating a relationship between them. This logion does not explicitly address the concept of the Trinity, nor does it provide detailed theological explanations about the nature of Jesus' relationship with the Father.
It is worth noting that interpretations of this logion may vary among different Christian traditions and theological perspectives. Some groups, such as the Christadelphians, interpret this logion as supporting their rejection of the Trinity doctrine. They argue that it emphasizes the distinction between Jesus and the Father and their separate identities.
It is important to recognize that the Gospel of Thomas is one among many texts that contribute to the diverse range of early Christian thought. Different interpretations and understandings of theological concepts, including the Trinity, exist within Christianity.
(13) Jesus said to his disciples, "Compare me to something and tell me what I resemble." Simon Peter said to him, " You are like a just messenger." Matthew said to him, "An intelligent philosopher is what you resemble." Thomas said to him, "Teacher, my mouth utterly will not let me say what you resemble." Jesus said, "I am not your (sing.) teacher, for you have drunk and become intoxicated from the bubbling wellspring that I have personally measured out. And he took him, withdrew, and said three sayings to him. Now, when Thomas came to his companions they asked him, "What did Jesus say to you?" Thomas said to them, "If I say to you (plur.) one of the sayings that he said to me, you will take stones and stone me, and fire will come out of the stones and burn you up."
(Stephen Patterson and Marvin Meyer 1998)
Notice here that Simon Peter and Matthew describe Jesus as a just messenger or a intelligent philosopher vs the son of the Living God in the canonical gospels
77) Jesus said, "It is I who am the light which is above everything. It is I who now am everything. From Me now that everything comes forth, and up to Me did everything reach. Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift up the stone, and you will find Me there."
This saying is about the Lord Jesus been give all power and authority in heaven and on earth after his resurrection so this saying is speaking about Jesus' new power of providence over the universe
Thus the Lord can now penetrate everything
77) Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift up the stone, and you will find Me there."
108) Jesus said, "He who will drink from my mouth will become like Me. I myself shall become he, and the things that are hidden will become revealed to him."
Thus we too can become equal with Jesus this saying plainly states that the believer who drinks from Jesus’ mouth becomes Jesus
Notice here that Simon Peter and Matthew describe Jesus as a just messenger or a intelligent philosopher vs the son of the Living God in the canonical gospels
30) Jesus said, "Where there are three gods, they are gods. Where there are two or one, I am with him."
Translated by Thomas O. Lambdin (from Coptic)
(30) Jesus said "Where there are three, they are without God, and where there is only one, I say, I am with that one."
Translated by Marvin Meyer (from Greek)
The Jews had and worshipped several Gods at that time - Moses had to fight with that fact already and Jesus encountered it again. Even though the Trinity was formed after Jesus' crucifixion - Father, Son, Holy Spirit - it can be assumed that Jesus was aware of the plans for his future, so here Jesus is having a slap against Trinitarian doctrine, declaring that a doctrine of 3 gods is polytheistic if one understands that each of the gods is a separate god. Thus there is only one true god and where there is one god alone Jesus is with that him,
Reading it again,
30) Jesus said, "Where there are three gods, they are gods. Where there are two or one, I am with him."
Jesus is denouncing the idea of the trinity, whether that be 3 in 1 or three separate beings.
To Jesus, there is only the Undivided One.
So when I read this I see Jesus denouncing a cluster of three gods, also known as a trinity of gods.
This teaches us that the Father is the Undivided One, the Deity is not divided into 3 persons.
But the Coptic text is corrupted and the Greek like the Coptic is nonsense as well April Deconick in her translation of the GTh "The original Gospel of Thomas in Translation" has reconstructed the text: Jesus says: Jesus said, “Where two or more are gathered in My name, I am with them.”Jesus said, ‘Split a piece of wood or lift a stone, and you will see My Father’s handiwork.”
Translated by Thomas O. Lambdin (from Coptic)
(30) Jesus said "Where there are three, they are without God, and where there is only one, I say, I am with that one."
Translated by Marvin Meyer (from Greek)
The Jews had and worshipped several Gods at that time - Moses had to fight with that fact already and Jesus encountered it again. Even though the Trinity was formed after Jesus' crucifixion - Father, Son, Holy Spirit - it can be assumed that Jesus was aware of the plans for his future, so here Jesus is having a slap against Trinitarian doctrine, declaring that a doctrine of 3 gods is polytheistic if one understands that each of the gods is a separate god. Thus there is only one true god and where there is one god alone Jesus is with that him,
Reading it again,
30) Jesus said, "Where there are three gods, they are gods. Where there are two or one, I am with him."
Jesus is denouncing the idea of the trinity, whether that be 3 in 1 or three separate beings.
To Jesus, there is only the Undivided One.
So when I read this I see Jesus denouncing a cluster of three gods, also known as a trinity of gods.
This teaches us that the Father is the Undivided One, the Deity is not divided into 3 persons.
But the Coptic text is corrupted and the Greek like the Coptic is nonsense as well April Deconick in her translation of the GTh "The original Gospel of Thomas in Translation" has reconstructed the text: Jesus says: Jesus said, “Where two or more are gathered in My name, I am with them.”Jesus said, ‘Split a piece of wood or lift a stone, and you will see My Father’s handiwork.”
The interpretation you provided for Logion 30 of the Gospel of Thomas is a valid interpretation within the context of rejecting the Trinitarian doctrine. You argue that Jesus is denouncing the idea of the Trinity and emphasizing the belief in the Undivided One, the oneness of God. This interpretation suggests that Jesus is asserting his unity with the one true God and challenging the concept of multiple gods or a triune God.
However, it's important to note that Logion 30 is subject to different translations and interpretations due to variations in the available manuscripts. The Coptic and Greek versions of the Gospel of Thomas have slight differences in wording and can lead to divergent understandings.
The translation you cited by April DeConick provides an alternative reading where Jesus speaks about being present when two or more are gathered in his name, emphasizing his divine presence in communal worship or spiritual gatherings. This interpretation focuses on the spiritual presence of Jesus rather than directly addressing the concept of the Trinity.
Overall, the Gospel of Thomas is a complex and enigmatic text, and scholars have different viewpoints on its intended meaning and original teachings. The interpretations of individual sayings can vary based on the translation, textual variants, and the theological lens through which they are examined.
77) Jesus said, "It is I who am the light which is above everything. It is I who now am everything. From Me now that everything comes forth, and up to Me did everything reach. Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift up the stone, and you will find Me there."
This saying is about the Lord Jesus been give all power and authority in heaven and on earth after his resurrection so this saying is speaking about Jesus' new power of providence over the universe
Thus the Lord can now penetrate everything
77) Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift up the stone, and you will find Me there."
108) Jesus said, "He who will drink from my mouth will become like Me. I myself shall become he, and the things that are hidden will become revealed to him."
Thus we too can become equal with Jesus this saying plainly states that the believer who drinks from Jesus’ mouth becomes Jesus
The gospel of thomas does not teach the Trinity
ChatGPT
You are correct that the Gospel of Thomas does not explicitly teach the doctrine of the Trinity as it is understood in traditional Christian theology. The Gospel of Thomas, being a Gnostic text, presents a unique perspective on spiritual teachings and focuses on the inner wisdom and enlightenment gained through gnosis (knowledge).
The doctrine of the Trinity, which states that God is one being existing in three persons (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit), is a concept that developed within the mainstream Christian tradition over time and is primarily based on interpretations of various biblical texts.
While the Gospel of Thomas contains teachings attributed to Jesus, it does not explicitly address the concept of the Trinity or provide detailed theological explanations in that regard. The emphasis of the text is more on the individual's spiritual journey, self-discovery, and the attainment of inner wisdom.
It is important to recognize that different texts within early Christianity present diverse perspectives, and not all of them delve into the complexities of theological doctrines such as the Trinity. The Gospel of Thomas, in particular, highlights a distinct Gnostic approach to spiritual teachings, focusing on personal revelation and the inner transformation of the individual.
Therefore, if one is seeking explicit teachings on the Trinity, they would typically turn to other canonical texts within the New Testament or later theological writings that address this specific doctrine.
In Logion 13 of the Gospel of Thomas, Jesus engages in a conversation with his disciples regarding their perceptions of him. Simon Peter compares Jesus to a just messenger, and Matthew compares him to an intelligent philosopher. However, when it is Thomas' turn to respond, he states that he cannot adequately express what Jesus resembles.
This logion highlights the diverse perspectives and understandings of Jesus among his disciples. It contrasts with the canonical Gospels where Simon Peter confesses Jesus as the "Messiah, the Son of the living God" (Matthew 16:16). The Gospel of Thomas emphasizes the unique and enigmatic nature of Jesus, suggesting that he cannot be easily confined to a single role or title.
It is important to note that the Gospel of Thomas is a Gnostic text and presents a distinct perspective on Jesus and his teachings. It focuses on the inner spiritual journey and the acquisition of gnosis (knowledge) rather than specific doctrinal beliefs. Consequently, the descriptions given by the disciples in this logion reflect their limited understanding of Jesus at that moment.
The differences in portrayal between the Gospel of Thomas and the canonical Gospels can be attributed to the different theological contexts and intentions of the texts. The canonical Gospels aim to present a comprehensive narrative of Jesus' life, teachings, and identity, while the Gospel of Thomas prioritizes a more esoteric and mystical exploration of Jesus' wisdom and the disciple's quest for enlightenment.
Logion 77 in the Gospel of Thomas emphasizes the all-encompassing presence of Jesus as the light above everything. It speaks to his divine nature and suggests his omnipresence. The saying highlights the spiritual significance of Jesus, who is portrayed as the source from which everything comes forth and to which everything reaches. The imagery of finding Jesus even in the splitting of wood or lifting of a stone conveys the idea of his pervasive presence.
While the BASF provides a framework for understanding the beliefs of specific Christian groups, it does not directly address Logion 77 or offer a specific interpretation of this saying. The interpretation of Logion 77 may vary among different individuals and Christian traditions. It is important to study the saying within the context of the Gospel of Thomas and consider various scholarly interpretations to gain a more comprehensive understanding of its meaning.
The Birmingham Amended Statement of Faith (BASF) is a specific doctrinal statement followed by certain Christian groups, including the Christadelphians. While the BASF provides a framework for understanding their beliefs, it does not directly address or interpret individual sayings from the Gospel of Thomas, such as Logion 77.
Logion 77 in the Gospel of Thomas emphasizes the all-encompassing presence of Jesus as the light above everything. The saying highlights the spiritual significance of Jesus and the idea that everything originates from him and reaches back to him. The imagery of being present in the splitting of wood or lifting of a stone conveys his pervasive presence.
Regarding the belief of Christadelphians, it is true that they do not believe in the pre-existence of Jesus. According to their beliefs, Jesus was begotten by God through the Holy Spirit and was a mortal man, sharing in human nature and experiencing the effects of Adam's transgression.
While the BASF provides a theological framework for understanding Christadelphian beliefs, it does not offer a specific interpretation of Logion 77 or address the concept of Jesus as the light above everything. Interpretations of this saying may vary among different individuals and Christian traditions. It is important to study the saying within the context of the Gospel of Thomas and consider various scholarly interpretations to gain a more comprehensive understanding of its meaning.
Certainly. According to the BASF and the Christadelphian belief in God manifestation, Jesus is understood as God with us, God manifested in the flesh. The belief is that Jesus, while being of like nature with mortal man, was begotten of God and inhabited by God through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. This belief emphasizes that Jesus, during his natural life, shared in the physical nature of humanity, experiencing the effects of Adam's transgression, including death. Jesus is seen as the representative of Adam's disobedient race and the means through which God accomplished His plan of redemption.
In light of this understanding, Logion 77 in the Gospel of Thomas can be seen as expressing the concept of Jesus as the manifestation of God's light that is above everything. It emphasizes the all-encompassing presence and authority of Jesus, who is the source from which everything comes forth and to whom everything reaches. The saying highlights the divine nature and significance of Jesus as the embodiment of God's light and presence in the world.
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