Reflections On 1 Corinthians 14:34-40

Let Your Women Be Silent In Church 

Reflections On 1 Corinthians 14:34-40 

From the King James Version: “Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law (nomos). And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? … Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. Let all things be done decently and in order.” 

It's always profitable to examine verses more closely than we may have previously. To gain a proper understanding in this case it's vital. Following are thoughts on various phrases from the passage above. The Greek word 'ecclesia' (a body of called out ones) will replace "church" in this file. “What? Came The Word Of God Out From You?” Paul is asking if the Corinthians thought their ecclesia was the "mother” ecclesia. Was it established first? Was it the only ecclesia sending forth the Word of God? He may have said, “You've adopted some very unusual customs. You allow women to speak in a manner unknown in other ecclesias. 

You also allow irregularity and confusion unknown in all the others. You allow many to speak at the same time, and you tolerate confusion and disorder. Do you have a right to be different from others? Do you have authority to dictate to them and teach them to allow these disorders that are strictly opposed to their standard practice? Shouldn't you conform instead and observe rules that are older than yours?” Paul's main point here is that the ecclesia at Corinth wasn't established first. Really, it was one of the last ecclesias. Therefore, it had no right to differ from others or dictate to them. “Came (The Word Of God) Unto You Only?” Paul is reminding them they weren't the first to believe, nor were they the only ones to receive the Word. He likely added, “God has sent the same Gospel to others and it's traveling all over the world. 

Therefore, others have the same right as you to originate customs and special practices, but since this would create confusion and disorder you should all follow the same rules. Customs that aren't allowed in other ecclesias shouldn't be allowed in yours.” “Let Your Women Keep Silence In The Churches.” This was a Jewish ordinance. Women weren't allowed to teach in their assemblies, or even ask questions. Rabbis taught that “a woman should know nothing but the use of her spindle.” And the following saying of Rabbi Eliezer is worthy of nothing but disgust: “Let the words of the law be burned rather than be given to women.” This was the standard until the time of the Gospel when, according to the prediction of Joel, the Spirit of God would be poured out on women as well as men so they could both prophesy and teach.

 This is obvious from what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 11:5 when laying down rules to regulate this part of their conduct while ministering in the church. Some might wonder if this doesn't contradict what he said in Chapter 14. Or should one of these passages be understood differently? It's clearly stated in Chapter 14 that women should remain silent while in the ecclesia since there was a rule against them speaking. Yet there's no contradiction if both places are carefully examined. It's clear from the context that Paul is referring to asking questions and what might be called attempting to exercise dominion during meetings. Men were allowed to ask questions, object, argue, and attempt to rebut in the synagogues, but women weren't afforded the privilege. Paul confirms the same regarding Christian ecclesias when he orders sisters to remain silent, stating if they wanted to learn something they should ask their husbands at home because it was improper for them to contend with men on points of doctrine and matters of conscience in public. However, this certainly couldn't mean when a woman received an influence from God enabling her to teach she shouldn't obey it. On the contrary, she was encouraged to obey it, and (as stated above) Paul gave instructions in Chapter 11 regulating her personal appearance while doing it. The only thing he opposes here is questioning, fault-finding, and arguing during ecclesial meetings. He felt this would appear as an attempt to usurp authority over men by pitting their judgment against them. He also claimed allowing it would lead to acts of disobedience and arrogance, something no woman under the influence of God's Spirit would be guilty of. “Your Women Are Commanded To Be Under Obedience, As Also Saith The Law (nomos).” This could be a reference to Genesis 3:16. “I will increase your trouble during pregnancy and your pain while giving birth. In spite of this, you will still desire your husband but will be subject to him." If so, Paul must have been comparing the disorderly and disobedient women of his day with Eve. He sure wasn't talking about sisters on whom God had poured his Spirit. As for the Greek word 'nomos,' a reliable Dictionary will define it as: “That which is assigned, a practice, or a law.” It's used of law: in the NT of law in general; of a force or influence impelling one to action; of the Mosaic law or the Old Testament Scriptures in general; a custom or practice. There's no place in the Law of Moses commanding wives to be subject to their husbands. Yes, there are several examples of wives throughout the Bible doing just that, but the Law itself doesn't say it. However, as seen above, Jewish customs and practices did say it. Thus, it's best to translate the phrase in 1 Corinthians 14:34 as “Your wives are commanded to be obedient (in submission) according to Jewish custom.” Below are two verses often used to support barring sisters from public preaching and teaching, but see how they read when translated closer to the Greek and further from the thinking prevalent in the Seventeenth, Eighteenth, and Nineteenth centuries … 1 Tim 2:12 - “I won't allow a wife ('gune' - “a woman, specifically a wife”_Strong) to teach or assume authority over her husband ('aner' – a man, husband). Instead, she must remain quiet.” 1 Cor 13:34-40 - “Wives ('gune') should remain silent in the ecclesias. They aren't allowed to speak, but must be submissive as custom says. If they want to ask about something, they should ask their husbands at home, for it's disgraceful for a woman to speak in the ecclesia. Did God's Word originate with you? Are you the only ones it's reached? … If anyone ignores what I've said, they'll be ignored. Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy and don't forbid speaking in tongues, just make sure everything is done in a fitting and orderly way.” No comment is required when it's seen how little the verses support the view of barring sisters from prophesying or teaching when rendered this way. The verse below deals with a couple seemingly involved in a joint preaching and teaching effort. It's been translated to reflect two different mindsets. Which do you suppose correctly represents what happened? Acts 18:26 Enlightened Version: “Apollos began speaking boldly in the synagogue. When Aquilla and Priscilla heard, they invited him to their home and explained God's Way more accurately.” Traditional Version: “Apollos began speaking boldly in the synagogue. When Aquilla heard, he invited him to his home and explained God's Way more accurately, while Priscilla served the cocoa and cookies she'd picked up shopping while Aquilla attended worship service.” There's no indication in the Greek that Priscilla wasn't involved in teaching Apollos the Truth. Nor does it seem likely she spent her time in the kitchen or fluttering about the house dusting shelves and straightening nick-knacks. Actually, it's unlikely Luke would even include her in the manuscript if she hadn't taken an equal part in the effort. Paul appears to feel the same way judging by the fact he calls Priscilla and Aquila “my co-workers in Christ Jesus.” (Rom 16:3) Before mentioning the pair, he spoke of a sister named Phoebe from Cenchrea, said to have been the port city serving the Corinth area. After praising Phoebe, he informs the Romans she's a deaconess ('diakonos') in her ecclesia. She must have been high on Paul's trust list since the context of the passage clearly states he trusted her enough to deliver the letter to the Romans. As you surely know, Paul's letter to believers in Rome was quite lengthy and must have made a fairly large parcel. If Phoebe traveled from the Corinth area to Rome, she'd have logged 617 miles overland (or 536 nautical miles) before reaching her destination. Of course, one can always accept the interpretation that Phoebe was a mere servant girl like Rhoda over in Jerusalem. (Acts 12:13) In that case, one wonders what kind of help Paul urged the Romans to render to Phobe when he said “Assist her in whatever business she needs your help.” Could it be carrying trays of food to and from tables? Cleaning up after Ecclesial functions? Probably neither. It's more likely he's urging them to help her complete her mission and return home safely after she has. As for the word 'diakonos,' Mr Strong claims it signifies: “An attendant, that is, (generally) a waiter (at table or in other menial duties); or specifically a Christian teacher and pastor, technically a deacon or deaconess.” A decent Lexicon will provide information on 'diakonos' similar to the following: “One who executes the commands of another, especially of a master; a servant, attendant, or minister; the servant of a king; a deacon, one who by virtue of the office assigned to him or her by the church, cares for the poor and is charged with collecting and distributing money for their use; a waiter, one who serves food and drink.” It's obvious translators choose English words that fit their view of the status and role of sisters in the early ecclesias. Many versions translate 'diakonos' with “servant.

” Only a few dare render Romans 16:1 thus: “With this letter I'm introducing Phoebe to you. She's our sister in the Christian faith and a deacon of the church in the city of Cenchrea.” In Verse 2 Paul urges the Romans to “Receive her in the Lord's name, as God's people should, and provide any help she may need, for she herself has been a good friend to many, including me.” It seems from the evidence examined here that the ban on sisters taking part in public preaching and teaching is based on a misinterpretation of verses commonly thought to support it. Of course, there may be other verses that do support it. I'd be pleased if anyone knowing of such verses would reveal them in the Comments section below. If there are no other verses, it would be to the advantage of ecclesias in general and sisters specifically to reexamine the issue, for until we do we're all missing out on the unique viewpoint of half the body of Christ.

The Birth of the Christ Consciousness Revelation 12

The Birth of the Christ Consciousness Revelation 12

12:1 And a great sign was seen in heaven, a woman arrayed with the sun, and the moon was beneath her feet, and on her head was a crown of twelve stars, 2 and she was pregnant. And she cries out in her pains and in her agony to give birth.3 And another sign was seen in heaven, and, look! a great fiery-colored dragon, with seven heads and ten horns and upon its heads seven diadems; 4 and its tail drags a third of the stars of heaven, and it hurled them down to the earth. And the dragon kept standing before the woman who was about to give birth, that, when she did give birth, it might devour her child. 5 And she gave birth to a son, a male, who is to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod. And her child was caught away to God and to his throne. 6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and sixty days. 7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled 8 but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven. 9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him


John is shown a picture of the Church in its victory over sin and death through our Lord Jesus Christ. The woman symbolizes the Church she is crowned with twelve stars, the twelve stars are the twelve attributes of the Christian faith which are the 12 aeons 1faith, 2hope, 3love, 4promises, 5grace, 6repentance, 7forgiveness, 8baptism, 9anointing,, 10wisdom, 11Eucharist 12logos

The child she bears is the Christ consciousness.

My children, with whom I am again in labor until Christ is formed in you-- Galatians 4:19

The Dragon is Satan The outward senses of self-centeredness, self-gratification, self-indulgence, self-importance, self-righteousness, self-glorification, self-delusion, self, ego, the "false god," the "beast"

As the Christ consciousness is born, a rival force of the old self occurs, which brings about recurring periods of rebellion in a believer. Through divine intervention (daily readings of the scriptures the spirit-word), the Christ consciousness is protected while the carnal mind, is withdrawn below the conscious level.

Heaven is the realm of conscious harmony, a consciousness of peace in mind, body, and soul. Since man is free to think what he will, conflicting thoughts may enter heaven. When this takes place, man's harmony is disrupted and there is "war in heaven."?

War in heaven this represents the struggle that goes on in the believers mind while the believer tries to adjust his sinful nature to the requirements of Christ consciousness. It is a war which leads to Armageddon

What is symbolized by the "great voice in Heaven" acknowledging the salvation, power, and kingdom of God and the authority of his Christ? The "great voice" from Heaven symbolizes the beginning of the reign of Christ, through whom comes salvation. When we free the mind from Sin, salvation from the earth, or the carnal mind starts to takes place and the Christ consciousness comes into being a new life follows for Christ is "the resurrection and the life."

Why has the "Devil" but a short time in the earth”? In a literal sense the time is relatively short compared with eternity. Allegorically, man soon tires of disharmony, and longs for peace, that he may have by claiming his inheritance as a son of God through our Lord Jesus Christ. When he submits to the will of God, the Devil's reign over him is soon at an end.

Satan also came among the sons of God Job 1:6

Satan also came among the sons of God Job 1:6

Job 1:6"Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before Yahweh, and Satan came also among them."

Problem: Satan in Job is an angel who came among the angels in heaven and criticized Job, whom he had been watching whilst walking around in the earth seeing what trouble he could make. He then brings lots of problems upon Job to try and turn him away from God.

Solution:

Nowhere in the book of Job is Satan clearly stated to be a fallen angel. The argument that Satan is a fallen angel is an assumed one, and involves the following assumptions:


That the "sons of God" refers to angels. The expression is possibly identified with angels in Job 38:7, but is used of humans elsewhere in Scripture: Deut. 14:1 R.S.V.; Psa. 82:6, R.S.V.; Hosea 1:10, Luke 3:38; John 1:12; 1 John 3:1. that the phrase “sons of God” can refer to those who have the true understanding of God (Rom. 8:14; 2 Cor. 6:17-18; 1 Jn. 3:7). Angels do not bring false accusations against believers “before the Lord” (2 Pet. 2:11)

That Satan was a "son of God". The passage only states that he "came among them", but not that he was himself a "son of God" It cannot be conclusively proved that Satan was a son of God - he “came among them”.

It is assumed that "a conference" took place in heaven from the following two references: "To present themselves before Yahweh" (Job 1:6); "so Satan went forth from the presence of Yahweh" (Job 2:7).

But note the following:

The "conference" need not to have taken place in heaven. When men came before Yahweh's accredited representatives on earth (e.g., the judges), they were said to be standing "before Yahweh".

The following are two examples:

"Then both the men, between whom the controversy is, shall stand before Yahweh, before the priests and the judges, which shall be in those days." (Deut. 19:17).

". . . Take heed what ye do: for ye judge not for man, but for Yahweh who is with you in the judgment." (2 Chron. 19:6).

To leave the presence of Yahweh (Job 1:12) does not require Satan ("adversary", A.V. mg., Job 1:6) to have had access to the dwelling place of God in heaven. Cain "went out from the presence of Yahweh" (Gen. 4:16) and he certainly was not in heaven. The adversary was well travelled on the earth: "going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it." (Job 1:7 R.S.V.). (Is walking the usual mode of locomotion for a mighty angel?)

It is impossible that a rebel angel could have had access to the dwelling place of God in heaven for the following reasons:


God does not tolerate evil: "Evil may not sojourn with thee." (Psa. 5:4, 5, R.S.V.); "Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity . . ." (Hab. 1:13).


How then could a rebel angel have access to heaven from before the creation of Adam and Eve until 1914? Or if, as it is sometimes asserted that Satan was cast out of heaven before the creation of Adam and Eve, how did he manage to regain access to heaven?


If Satan were a rebel angel with access to heaven until 1914 (as J.W.'s assert), this would invalidate the Lord's prayer. Jesus prayed: "Thy Kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven." (Matt. 6:10). Did Jesus believe that heaven was the seat of revolution, intrigue, and disorder, and later to be the scene of a great war?

Job never attributed his afflictions to a rebel angel. His declaration was simply: "The hand of God hath touched me". (Job 19:21 cf. 2:10). Even Job's brethren, sisters and acquaintances acknowledged that the evil was brought upon Job by Yahweh: "they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that Yahweh had brought upon him." (Job 42:11).

Satan in the Book of Job

Prologue (chapters 1-2, prose): God invites a character termed "the Satan" to consider the piety of his servant Job. The Satan counters that God fails to realize Job is only pious because he is well blessed in riches and, were he deprived, he would curse Him. God meets the Satan's demands by Himself destroying Job's fortunes, children and ultimately health. Yet Job does not curse God; the Satan loses the barter.

In the Hebrew Bible, as in mainstream Judaism to this day,
Satan never appears as Western Christendom has come to know
him, as the leader of an “evil empire,” an army of hostile spirits
who make war on God and humankind alike.7 As he first appears
in the Hebrew Bible, Satan is not necessarily evil, much less
opposed to God. On the contrary, he appears in the book of
Numbers and in Job as one of God's obedient servants—a
messenger, or angel, a word that translates the Hebrew term for
messenger (ma’lak) into Greek (angelos). In Hebrew, the angels
were often called “sons of God” (bene ‘elohim), and were
envisioned as the hierarchical ranks of a great army, or the staff
of a royal court

The Story of Mary Magdalene and the First Easter Egg

The Story of Mary Magdalene and the First Easter Egg

Jehovah's Witnesses claim that the Easter egg is a pagan symbol

The Easter egg in Christian tradition has a much humbler origin, and nothing to do with ancient pagan practices

One tradition concerning Mary Magdalene says that following the death and resurrection of Jesus, she used her position to gain an invitation to a banquet given by the Roman Emperor Tiberius.

Her purpose was to protest to him that his governor in Judea, Pontius Pilate, and the two high priests, had conspired and executed an innocent man, namely our Lord Jesus Christ.

According to this tradition, after the Ascension of Jesus, Mary went to the Emperor of Rome and greeted him with "Christ has risen," whereupon he pointed to an egg on his table and stated, "Christ has no more risen than that egg is red." After making this statement it is said the egg immediately turned blood red

This tradition of Mary Magdalene visiting Caesar Tiberius can be found in the Gospel of Nicodemus but it does not mention eggs:

Mary Magdalene said, weeping: Hear, O peoples, tribes, and tongues, and learn to what death the lawless Jews have delivered Him Who did them ten thousand good deeds. Hear, and be astonished. Who will let these things be heard by all the world? I shall go alone to Rome, to the Caesar. I shall show him what evil Pilate hath done in obeying the lawless Jews. (the Gospel of Nicodemus)

This she did. Going to Tiberius, she handed him an egg, saying: “Christ is risen.” It was the custom to give gifts to Caesar, but usually not something like an egg! Tiberius would not take the egg, but asked to know why she had offered it to him. Saint Mary explained that just as life is in an egg, so Christ the Life lay in the tomb. And as the chick breaks out of the “stone” of the shell, so Jesus came forth from the stone tomb in triumph over death. Taken aback, Tiberius demanded a sign that her words were true. Instantly the egg turned scarlet in Saint Mary’s hand, and she then spoke of Christ granting life through the shedding of His blood. It is from this incident that we have the custom of Easter eggs, which in the Eastern Churches are always bright red.

Learning of this offering by Mary Magdalene, the early Christians imitated her, presenting each other with eggs. Hence, eggs began to be used by Christians in the earliest centuries as a symbol of the Resurrection of Christ and of the regeneration of Christians for a new and a better life along with it.

For Orthodox Christians, the egg symbolizes the empty rock tomb from which Jesus Christ arose after Ηis Crucifixion.

Consider the following words from the Catholic Encyclopedia: “Because the use of eggs was forbidden during Lent, they were brought to the table on Easter Day, colored red to symbolize the Easter joy. This custom is found not only in the Latin but also in the Oriental Churches.”

Traditionally, Easter eggs are dyed throughout the Orthodox Christian world on Holy Thursday, and they are dyed red to represent the redeeming blood of Christ that was shed on the Cross, the white egg (before being dyed) represents the white marble tomb were Christ's body was laid after He was taken down from the Cross, and the hard shell of the egg symbolises the sealed tomb of Christ

Easter--The awakening and raising to spiritual consciousness of the divine mind in man, which has been dead in trespasses and sins and buried in the tomb of materiality.

An Examination of the "Secret Book of James"

An Examination of the "Secret Book of James"

A reply to Hal Flemings
http://jehovah.to/exe/general/james.htm

SECRET BOOK OF JAMES


According to Secret Book of James 4:4, the Lord Jesus offered Peter and James this advice: "But if you are oppressed by Satan and are persecuted and you do the Father's will, I say that he will love you and will make you equal with me and will consider that you have become beloved through his providence according to your free choice.."

The notion of being made equal with Christ is a NT teaching

Col 2:9 For in him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

All the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Jesus bodily and it will also dwell within us has well:

Eph 3:19 and to know the love of the Christ which surpasses knowledge, that YOU may be filled with all the fullness of the Deity.

We like Jesus are to be filled with God fullness

2Peter 1:4 Through these things he has freely given us the precious and very grand promises, that through these YOU may become sharers in divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world through lust.

we will share God's divine nature

2Th 2:14 He called you to this through the good news we declare, so that you may acquire the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

We shall share Jesus' glory

John 17:20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will[a] believe in Me through their word;
21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

In John 17 we are told that we are to be made perfect in one Christ in us and the Father in Christ
in the Age to come we shall be one with God by sharing his divine nature and being filled with his fullness.

1john 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

And, at philp 3:20 Of us for the commonwealth in heavens begins, out of which also a saviour we look for Lord Jesus Anointed, 21 who shall fashion anew the body of our humiliation, that it may be conformed to the body of his glory, according to the working whereby he is able even to subject all things unto himself.

Our position is that the Secret Book of James is in harmony with the "New Testament" on this issue.

In another place, we read: "Become seekers of death, therefore, like the dead who are seeking life, for what they seek is manifest to them. So what can be of concern to them? When you inquire into the subject of death, it will teach about election. I swear to you, none will be saved who are afraid of death; for God’s domain belongs to those who are dead. Become better than I; be like the son of the holy spirit!" --Secret Book of James 5:3-6

Here Jesus is speaking about those who are dead to sin and alive to God at the same time

Rom 6:2 Absolutely not! How can we who died to sin still live in it??

Rom 6:11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Ga 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

that I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, becoming conformed to his death

dying unto self and the world which Paul shows in self-denials of his holy life: he was "crucified with Christ"

Believers must die to sin, and live to God.

True believers are dead to sin, therefore they ought not to follow it. No man can at the same time be both dead and alive. He is a fool who, desiring to be dead to sin, thinks he may live in it.

son of the holy spirit that is to be born from above born of the spirit being a son of Deity by being made consubstantial with the father


Secret Book of James 6:27 reports that Jesus said to Peter and James: "Pay attention to instruction, understand knowledge, love life. And no one will persecute you, nor will any one oppress you, other than you yourselves."

That is no one will tempt you, nor will any one beguile you, other than you yourselves. For temptation comes from within Mark 7:21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: 23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

We will consider one more excerpt. This one comes from Secret Book of James 9:5,6 where Jesus tells Peter and James: "Accordingly, disregard rejection when you hear [it], but when you hear about the promise, exult all the more. I swear to you, whoever receives life and believes in the domain will never leave it - not even if the Father wishes to banish him!"

The Parable of the Wedding Feast

11 “But when the king came in to see the guests, he saw a man there who did not have on a wedding garment. 12 So he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you come in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless. 13 Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and[a] cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
14 “For many are called, but few are chosen.

Then Peter replied, "Lo, three times you have told us, 'Become full'; but we are full."
The Savior answered and said, "For this cause I have said to you, 'Become full,' that you may not be in want. They who are in want, however, will not be saved. For it is good to be full, and bad to be in want. Hence, just as it is good that you be in want and, conversely, bad that you be full, so he who is full is in want, and he who is in want does not become full as he who is in want becomes full, and he who has been filled, in turn attains due perfection. Therefore, you must be in want while it is possible to fill you, and be full while it is possible for you to be in want, so that you may be able to fill yourselves the more. Hence, become full of the Spirit, but be in want of reason, for reason <belongs to> the soul; in turn, it is (of the nature of) soul."
And when we had heard these words, we became glad, for we had been grieved at the words we have mentioned before. But when he saw us rejoicing, he said, "Woe to you who lack an advocate! Woe to you who stand in need of grace! Blessed will they be who have spoken out and obtained grace for themselves. Liken yourselves to foreigners; of what sort are they in the eyes of your city? Why are you disturbed when you cast yourselves away of your own accord and separate yourselves from your city? Why do you abandon your dwelling place of your own accord, making it ready for those who want to dwell in it? O you outcasts and fugitives, woe to you, for you will be caught! Or do you perhaps think that the Father is a lover of mankind, or that he is won over without prayers, or that he grants remission to one on another's behalf, or that he bears with one who asks? - For he knows the desire, and also what it is that the flesh needs! - (Or do you think) that it is not this (flesh) that desires the soul? For without the soul, the body does not sin, just as the soul is not saved without the spirit. But if the soul is saved (when it is) without evil, and the spirit is also saved, then the body becomes free from sin. For it is the spirit that raises the soul, but the body that kills it; that is, it is it (the soul) which kills itself. Verily, I say unto you, he will not forgive the soul the sin by any means, nor the flesh the guilt; for none of those who have worn the flesh will be saved. For do you think that many have found the kingdom of heaven? Blessed is he who has seen himself as a fourth one in heaven!"

Ezekiel 18:4 4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

There for Jehovah’s Witnesses are wrong about rejecting the Secret Book of James. Perhaps they should look at it again?

Revelation 4 A Vision of the Pleroma Revelation 4 and the Pleroma

A Vision of the Pleroma


Revelation 4 and the Pleroma

First of all the Pleroma did not always exist it was produced and formed by the Eternal Spirit this we call the emanation.
(He created the holy Pleroma in this way The Untitled Text in the Bruce Codex)

The word Pleroma means "fullness". It refers to all existence beyond visible universe. In other words it is the world of the Aeons, the heavens or spiritual universe. Bythos is the spiritual source of everything which emanates the pleroma,

The Pleroma is both the abode of and the essential nature of the True Ultimate Deity or Bythos.
The Pleroma as well as being the dwellings place of the Aeons is also a a state of consciousness

4:1 After these things I looked (when we are spiritually attuned), and behold, a door (a level of heightened awareness. It is only as the Lord, who holds the key, opens the door to the understanding of Heavenly things, that we are able to comprehend them. — Matt. 3:16; Ezek. 1:1; Rev. 19:11. ) standing open in heaven (an opening in the Firmament a way to the Pleroma). And the first voice (the still small voice) which I heard was like a trumpet (which is the seat of our deep intuitive knowing) speaking with me, saying, “Come up here, (raising into our awarneness to the super-conscious heaven that is the Pleroma. the Pleroma is has two different meanings the first the dwellings place of the Aeons the abode of and the essential nature of the True Ultimate Deity or Bythos. the second an elevated state of consciousness) and I will show you things which must take place after this.” (john did not go to heaven he was merely given a vision of Heavenly things. (Rev. 11:12.) "The seer now obtains a higher spiritual standpoint." What the Apostle beheld taking place in heaven has to do with those in covenant with God, those who are even now “in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.”)

2 Immediately I was in the Spirit (experience our transcendental state); and behold, a throne set in heaven, and the One (the Allness) sat on the throne (Of the Universe the ruler of this Universe and the Pleroma). 

As soon as John heard this invitation, he entered another visionary state (cf. 1:10). His body remained on the earth, but he saw a throne and someone sitting on it in heaven (cf. Ezek. 11:1, 5).

3 And He who sat there was like a jasper (Sophia) and a sardius (Logos) stone in appearance; and there was a rainbow around the throne (Justice is "the habitation of Thy Throne." [Psa. 89:14.] ), in appearance like an emerald ( Green, the predominant colour of life. the Divine Being on the throne is described as "like a jasper and a sardine stone to look upon." A phrase like this meets the reader in Revelation 2:11, where the light of the holy Jerusalem is described as "like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal." 
"And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass. And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper." (Rev. 21:18, 19.)

4 Around the throne (Encompassing it on all sides — always in mind — never out of sight.) were twenty-four thrones (moving away from the center where the One set on the throne we see twenty-four thrones in a circale ), and on the thrones I saw twenty-four elders sitting, (2 united Israels, 2 sets of 12 apostles) clothed in white robes (purified); and they had crowns of gold on their heads. (fully enlightened perspective)

5 And from the throne proceeded lightnings, thunderings, and voices. Seven lamps of fire were burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God. The 24 elders and the seven spirits of God are the emanation of the 30 aeons 

6 Before the throne there was a sea (the waters above the heavens or the Pleroma) of glass (the Firmament), like crystal (the Universe or outerspace "As the body of heaven in its clearness" (Exo 24:10; Psa 113:6). And in the midst of the throne, and around the throne, were four living creatures full of eyes in front and in back. 

To be "before the throne" means to be in a high state of good judgment. When we are using good judgment, there extends into our future an unlimited area of pure potentialities of good. This is the symbolism of the sea of glass and crystal. The sea stands for unlimited possibilities. Glass and crystal stand for purity.

"Eyes in front and behind" refers to the powers of foresight and hindsight. These are possessed by the four beasts mentioned.

7 The first living creature was like a lion (man’s physical nature), the second living creature like a calf (man’s subjective or emotional nature), the third living creature had a face like a man ( man’s mentality;), and the fourth living creature was like a flying eagle (standing for our inspirations and our intuition).

The four beasts in Rev. 4:7 represent the four main aspects of human nature. They are:

"like a lion"--physicality, the physical aspect of man, the physical body.
"like an ox"--subjective and emotional nature of man, the emotional or heart.
"With the face of a man"--mental or intellectual nature of man, mental or soul.
"like a flying eagle"--inspirational and intuitive nature of man, spiritual or spirit.

We have these four parts of our human nature, and all four are valuable to us, and yet none of them is of the highest. The highest, of course, is spiritual, our spiritual nature. These four beasts do not mean our spiritual nature, but our lower levels of human nature, except for the fourth, which means our inspirations and our intuitions leading us higher into the spiritual. 

8 The four living creatures, each having six wings, were full of eyes around and within. And they do not rest day or night, saying:
“Holy,[f] holy, holy,
Lord God Almighty,
Who was and is and is to come!”
9 Whenever the living creatures give glory and honour and thanks to Him who sits on the throne, who lives forever and ever,
10 the twenty-four elders fall down before Him who sits on the throne and worship Him who lives forever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying:
11 “You are worthy, [g]O Lord,
To receive glory and honour and power;
For You created all things,
And by Your will they [h]exist and were created.”

Simon Magus was not a Wicked Man Acts 8:24

Simon The Great One, Simon the Sorcerer or Simon the Magician,

A Sorcerer in the city of Samaria who so amazed the nation with his magical arts that the people said of him: “Everyone, from the least to the greatest, often spoke of him as “the Great One—the Power of God.” (Acts 8:10 New Living Translation compare Berean Study Bible)

In Acts 8:9-13 he is represented as having been held in awe by the Samaritans as the manifestation of the hidden power of God, and as being called by them "The Great One."

The early Christian Clementine "Recognitiones" (vii.-x.) represent Simon as a Jewish magician instead of a Samaritan, stating that he was a member of a Jewish household in Cæsarea, and that, when pursued by Peter, he fled to Judea. Mention is made, moreover, of a magician named Simon who lived in this very city of Cæsarea about the year 40 of the common era (Josephus, "Ant." xx. 7, § 2); so that some scholars consider the two to be identical (Hilgenfeld, "Ketzergeschichte," p. 170; Albert, "Die Ersten Fünfzehn Jahre der Christlichen Kirche," p. 114, Münster, 1900; Waitz, in "Zeitschrift für Neutestamentliche Wissenschaft," v. 128). (Jewish encyclopedia)

Because of Philip’s ministry, Simon “became a believer” and was baptized.

But to what extent was Simon really converted to the Truth (Acts 8:18-21)? His old way of life reasserted itself. Why? Because he reacted to the miracles rather than the Word. He acted in much the same way as those whom he had previously deceived! Which means that his "conversion" was not complete.

When the apostles became aware of the increase that was taking place in Samaria, they sent Peter and John there. Upon arriving, the two apostles laid their hands on the new disciples, whereupon each one received the holy spirit. When Simon saw this, he was fascinated. “Give me also this authority,” he told the apostles, “that anyone upon whom I lay my hands may receive holy spirit.” Simon even offered them money, hoping to buy this sacred privilege!—Acts 8:14-19

Simon decided to make a profession of true religion. His motivation was open to question. It is possible for men and women to profess an acceptance of the Truth, but without possessing a genuine motive.

Peter strongly reproved Simon, telling him that his heart was not right in God’s sight and urging him to repent and pray for forgiveness. In response, Simon asked these apostles to pray to the Lord on his behalf.—Acts 8:9-24.

Repent, therefore, of this badness of yours,” Peter urged Simon, “and supplicate the Lord that, if possible, the device of your heart [“this scheme of yours,” New Jerusalem Bible] may be forgiven you; for I see you are a poisonous gall and a bond of unrighteousness.”—Acts 8:22, 23.

Happily, Simon saw the seriousness of his wrong desire. He begged the apostles: “You men, make supplication for me to the Lord that none of the things you have said may come upon me.” (Acts 8:24)

Undoubtedly, Simon was not a wicked man; he wanted to do what was right, but he was momentarily misguided. So he pleaded with the apostles: “Both of you pray to the Lord for me that none of the things you have said will happen to me.”—Acts 8:20-24.

Simon the sorcerer as an allegory

Simon the sorcerer is the ambition of the ego or the sin consciousness to possess the power of Spirit without paying the price through faith and love. The offer of money for spiritual power involves the thought of man's putting a price on the free gift of God.

The power of the Holy Spirit is obtained only by unselfish service; therefore one's own power and glorification have "neither part nor lot" in the spiritual realm, the kingdom of heaven.

The only way to loose the bonds of self-hood, to make the heart right toward God, is through repentance, Sincere prayer, and meditation, which transforms selfishness into unselfishness, the ego into the true self;.

Romans 12:2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is--his good, pleasing and perfect will.

Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

The Preexistence of the Church

The Preexistence of the Church

Jeremiah 1:5: Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

The idea occurs in the NT: The existence of the church

Eph 1:4  according as He did choose us in him before the foundation of the world, for our being holy and unblemished before Him, in love,

The origins of the pre-existent spiritual Church to Ephesians 1:4,1 where Paul speaks about believers having been chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world. This speaks somewhat to the idea of pre-existence but only in the sense of the foreknowledge of God, and that was not unique to Paul’s letter to the Ephesians. 

Rom 8:29  For whom he did foreknow <4267>, he also did predestinate <4309> to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

The word proginosko comes from pro, before, and ginosko, to know intimately, and signifies
a knowledge that brings together. Yahweh "knows the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done" (Isa. 46:10); He "calls those things which be not as though they were" (Rom. 4:17) — thus He "brings together" the past, present and future, having a complete knowledge of all things, and is able to see the future as clearly as the past. Divine foreknowledge is the basis of the divine purpose. It enables Him to extend His calling for salvation knowing the ultimate results of that calling. So He could select with perfect wisdom and justice a Jacob rather than an Esau (Mai. 1:2-3), because He knew how each would develop, and the characteristics that they would manifest. With similar ability the divine call goes out today to invite those who have the capacity and desire to reflect the divine glory (IPet. 1:2; 2Tim. 2:19).

The Greek word proginosko occurs only in the following places: Rom. 11:2- God foreknew the Jews as His people. Acts 2:23 (prognosis); IPet. 1:20 - God foreknew (foreordained) the mission and sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Rom. 8:29-30 - God foreknows those who will conform to the image of His Son. IPet. 1:2 - God foreknows {prognosis) the election of the saints. Acts 26:5 (proginosko) - Certain Jews knew Paul from before. 2Pet. 3:17 (proginosko) - We can know before the events of the future, for God has shared part of His foreknowledge with us through the scriptures.

"He also did predestinate" — The word proorizo comes from pro, before, and horizo, to mark out or bound (from which we have our word "horizon"). Thus the idea is to limit in advance; predetermine, to "divide or separate one part from another". The word refers to God's ability to mark out the ultimate destiny of His chosen ones (see Eph. 1:5,11). He has determined the "horizon" of our future, having laid out the "line" of our life. This was accomplished in the garden of Eden, when, notwithstanding the failure of mankind to live up to the obedience required, Yahweh "preserved" the "way of life" (Gen. 3:24); He provided the means by which faithful believers might ultimately enter into the promised inheritance (Rev. 2:7).
Therefore God has predetermined their destiny on the basis of His foreknowledge of how they would act. Paul says that God has "made known unto us the mystery of  His will, according to His good pleasure which He hath purposed in Himself: that in the dispensation of the fulness of times He might gather together in one all things in Christ... in whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who worketh all things after the counsel of His own will" (Eph. 1:9-12). God has marked out beforehand the program of His actions with mankind, and therefore is able to see the results of that work before it comes to pass.
He did not, however, determine the actions of His creatures, nor force them to do what they would not willingly have done (see Phil. 2:12). The thing predeterminedis the standard of Christ, to which all must conform. God required beforehand that those whom He foreknew should conform to that image of His Son. Predestination, or the prediction of what would occur, is only possible through the prescience of Yahweh, and only divine wisdom and power can foretell
the future with unerring accuracy. The principle of predestination is summed up in the phrase: "He that believeth and is baptised shall be saved" (Mk. 16:16): it is a certain, established and defined destiny of those who remain faithful. Thus we have hope of "an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away" (IPet. 1:4), and which God will grant to all who conform to His precepts.

Paul is not talking about the pre-existence of the Church but about the pre-selection of believers.

Romans 9:11-14 For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth; It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

The pre-existence of the Church is well known from early Christian literature; ~ 

Ignatius, who is also called Theophorus, to the Church which is at Ephesus, in Asia, deservedly most happy, being blessed in the greatness and fulness of God the Father, and predestinated before the beginning1 of time ("before the ages."), that it should be always for an enduring and unchangeable glory, being united and elected through the true passion by the will of the Father, and Jesus Christ, our God: Abundant happiness through Jesus Christ, and His undefiled grace.


2Clem 2:1 Rejoice, thou barren that barest not. Break out and cry, thou that travailest not; for more are the children of the desolate than of her that hath the husband. In that He said Rejoice, thou barren that barest not, He spake of us: for our Church was barren, before that children were given unto her.

2Clem 9:5 If Christ the Lord who saved us, being first spirit, then became flesh, and so called us, in like manner also shall we in this flesh receive our reward.

Here Christ the Lord is the logos the anointing spirit which descended upon Jesus in bodily shape at his baptism in the Jordan, and took possession of him. This was the anointing which constituted him Christ (or the anointed), and which gave him the superhuman powers of which he showed himself possessed.

Clem. 14:1-2

2Clem 14:1 Wherefore, brethren, if we do the will of God our Father, we shall be of the first Church, which is spiritual, which was created before the sun and the moon; but if we do not the will of the Lord, we shall be of the scripture that saith, My house was made a den of robbers. So therefore let us choose rather to be of the Church of life, that we may be saved.

By “spiritual” he means something like “figuratively” (cf. Rev 11:8)

The Church pre-existed however not as a spirit being, but spiritually it seems clear that this was the case. He writes, “we will belong to the first church, the spiritual church, the church that was created before the sun and moon” (14.1), and again, “the church was spiritual, it became manifest in Christ’s flesh” (14.3). This is allegorical language figurative or spiritual

2Clem 14:2 And I do not suppose ye are ignorant that the living Church is the body of Christ: for the scripture saith, God made man, male and female. The male is Christ and the female is the Church. And the Books and the Apostles plainly declare that the Church existeth not now for the first time, but hath been from the beginning: for she was spiritual, as our Jesus also was spiritual, but was manifested in the last days that He might save us.



Again the writer is being figurative, that the church pre-existed as an idea in the foreknowledge of God, in the same way that Jesus pre-existed. So, our understanding is that Jesus only pre-existed in a figurative sense and not literally. 

2Clem 14:3 Now the Church, being spiritual was manifested in the flesh of Christ, thereby showing us that if any of us guard her in the flesh and defile her not, he shall receive her again in the Holy Spirit: for this flesh is the counterpart and copy of the spirit*. No man therefore, when he hath defiled the copy, shall receive the original for his portion. This therefore is what He meaneth, brethren; Guard ye the flesh, that ye may partake of the spirit.

A community of such individuals as these constitutes the mystical body of Christ. By faith, its elements are "members of His body, of His flesh, and of His bones." Hence, they are "bone of His bone, and flesh of His flesh;" and, therefore, the beloved Eve of the last Adam, the Lord who is to come from heaven, and make her of the same spiritual nature as His own. Thus, the church is figuratively taken out of the side of her Lord; for every member of it believes in the remission of sins through His shed blood; and they all believe in the real resurrection of His flesh and bones, for their justification unto life by a similar revival from the dead. "Your bodies are the members," or flesh and bones, "of Christ; and he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit" (1Cor 6:15-17). "I have espoused you to one husband," says Paul, "that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ" (2Cor 11:15-17). 

*the reference here is to spiritual things, but not to the Holy Spirit directly. This is also true in several places that follow.

2Clem 14:4 But if we say that the flesh is the Church and the spirit is Christ, then he that hath dealt wantonly with the flesh hath dealt wantonly with the Church. Such and one therefore shall not partake of the spirit, which is Christ>.

Ptolemy's Commentary on The Gospel of John Prologue 
http://www.gnosis.org/library/ptl.htm

Ptolemy's Commentary is should be understood as a Commentary on the Pleroma

First of all the Pleroma did not always exist it was produced and formed by the Eternal Spirit this we call the emanation.

(He created the holy Pleroma in this way The Untitled Text in the Bruce Codex)

The word Pleroma means "fullness". It refers to all existence beyond visible universe In other words it is the world of the Aeons, the heavens or spiritual universe. Bythos is the spiritual source of everything which emanates the pleroma.

The Pleroma is both the abode of and the essential nature of the True Ultimate Deity or Bythos.


John 1:1–4 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 in him was life, and the life was the light of men.

But furthermore (he says), "That which came into being in it was Life."[Jn 1:4] Here he discloses a pair. For he says that the entirety came into being through it, but Life is in it. Now, that which came into being in it more intimately belongs to it than what came into being through it: it is joined with it and through it it bears fruit. Indeed, inasmuch as he adds, "and Life was the light of human beings", [Jn 1:4] in speaking of human beings he has now disclosed also the Church by means of a synonym, so that with a single word he might disclose the partnership of the pair. For from the Word and Life, the Human Being and the Church came into being. And he called Life the light of human beings because they are enlightened by her, i.e. formed and made visible. Paul, too, says this: "For anything that becomes visible is light." [Eph 5:13] So since Life made the Human Being and the Church visible and engendered them, she is said to be their light.

Now among other things, John plainly made clear the second quartet, i.e. the Word; Life; the Human Being; the Church.

But what is more, he also disclosed the first quartet. describing the Savior, now, and saying that all things outside the Fullness were formed by him, he says that he is the fruit of the entire fullness. For he calls him a light that "shines in the darkness" [Jn 1:5] and was not overcome by it, inasmuch as after he had fitted together all things that had derived from the passion they did not become acquainted with him. And he calls him Son, Truth, Life, and Word become flesh. We have beheld the latter's glory, he says. And its glory was like that of the Only- Begotten, which was bestowed on him by the Father, "full of grace and truth". [Jn 1:14] And he speaks as follows: "And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us; we have beheld its glory, glory as of the Only-Begotten from the Father." [Jn 1:14] So he precisely discloses also the first quartet when he speaks of the Father; Grace; the Only-Begotten; Truth. Thus did John speak of the first octet, the mother of the entirety of aeons. For he referred to the Father; Grace; the Only-Begotten; Truth; the Word; Life; the Human Being; the Church.

Ecclesia or Church is in the mythology proclaimed by Valentinus one of the aeons of the primal ogdoad was named Ecclesia (Adv. Haer.1.11.1). This aeon was the consort to Anthropos, and from this consort pair emerged twelve powers (cf. Adv. Haer. 1.1.1; cf. Heracleon, Comm. John 13.51).

In a later Valentinian text, The Tripartite Tractate (third century), Church is the third member of the primal triad that “existed from the beginning” (57.34-35). 

Here the Church is also identified with the heavenly Jerusalem. which occurs by itself in Gal. 4:26  additional explanation from 4 Ezra 7.26; 1 Enoch 90:28-29; Book of Elijah 10; 2 Baruch 4:2-7; cf.Rev 21:2.

In the Tripartite Tractate, Church is a composite entity, “consisting of many men that existed before the aeons” (58.30-31). In this sense, Church is not a single aeon by composite of individual aeons, Therefore the Church is identical with the Pleroma. 

The Tripartite Tractate

the son and the church 

this is where he introduces the two parts the other two parts of God the Son and the church and the church later would sometimes be interchange with the holy spirit

Just as the Father exists in the proper sense, the one before whom there was no one else, and the one apart from whom there is no other unbegotten one, so too the Son exists in the proper sense, the one before whom there was no other, and after whom no other son exists.

The message here is that God has everything in mind from the beginning. Whatever he produces from the beginning and as the Brethren of that beginning Christ is the eternal forever in the past or at the beginning at the time of which he conceived the concept of the son as being part of the story of humankind. This does not really matter because for us humans from our perspective it is the beginning of everything anyway and that’s really all we need to know and we’ll probably likely ever know anyway.

Not only did the Son exist from the beginning, but the Church, too, existed from the beginning.

Now, he who thinks that the discovery that the Son is an only son opposes the statement (about the Church) because of the mysterious quality of the matter, it is not so. For just as the Father is a unity, and has revealed himself as Father for him alone, so too the Son was found to be a brother to himself alone, in virtue of the fact that he is unbegotten and without beginning.

Not only did the Son as it goes on to say exist from the beginning but the church too existed from the beginning. And here’s well what I was talking about we starts to introduce these ideas that everybody was with God from the beginning and what does he mean by beginning? You see some can argue that he means beginning as in God forever and eternal past. But if that’s the case, there really is no beginning with God others might argue well beginning in the sense that when God conceived of creating the perfect sons and daughters of God the human beings. Whatever other beings he might have created in the universe that was the beginning and the son was there from the beginning and the church as well.

And the church here is referring to married partner of Christ that he marries the church and the church is all the all the people that make up the third type of person which is the spiritual beings. So now he who thinks the discovery that the Son is an only Son opposed to the statement about the church because of the mysterious quality of the matter it is not so. The writer saying here that the Son is the only Son and that should not be a discovery to you for just as the father is a unity and has revealed himself as father for him alone so to the son was found to be a brother to himself alone.

virtue the fact that he is unbegotten without beginning everybody can be a son and daughter of God and even Christ talked about have I not told you there ye are all gods. And throughout the canonical text and within Gnosticism a continuing he talks about everyone being able to or having been from the beginning sons and daughters of God.

But this writer is trying to somehow bring forth the specialness of Christ I think and whether or not you agree or disagree. The and in the way in which this writer is doing it I think it’s more important of what I believe the writers trying to convey to us that Christ holds the unique place within the story. and I think we all can agree with that at least the writer goes on to say he wonders it himself along with the father and he gives himself glory and honour in love.

Furthermore he too is the one whom he conceives of as son in accordance with the dispositions without beginning and without. In thus is the matter something which is fixed being innumerable and illimitable his offspring are indivisible those which exist have come forth from the son and the Father like kisses. Because of the multitude of some who kiss one another with the good insatiable thought the kiss being a unity although it involves many kisses this is to say it is the church.

Consisting of many men that existed before the Aeons which is called in the proper sense quote the Aeons of the Aeons unquote this is the nature of the Holy impressionable spirits upon which the Son rests. since it is his essence just as the father rests upon the Son so he really is trying to bring forth the elevation of not only God but those that follow God to the point of which he’s bringing Christ and the followers of Christ all the way back to the very beginning. Whatever that means whether it’s the beginning of creation or it means beginning meaning whenever God was which we all would probably presume would be forever in the past. 

But more importantly he points out that Christ and the church existed even before the Aeons number 4 Aeons emanations and we don't know where the starts but we'll disturber says dot dot the church exists in the dispositions and properties in which the father and the son exists as I have said from the start .

Therefore its subsets in the procreation of innumerable Aeons. Christ the father and the church are all a Godhead. That goes about creating everything else and that’s an interesting concept perhaps there’s a reason we were called sons and daughters of God also in an uncountable way they to beget by the properties and dispositions and which it the church exists.

So then, the church is able to beget that its people whatever the followers of God are for these comprise its association, which they form toward one another and toward those who have come forth from them toward the Son or whose glory they exist. now this is another impression that you get from proto Orthodox the idea that God is a worshipful figure or Christ should be glorified in some way typically with the Gnosticism we don’t look at God as someone that needs to be worshipped even Christ said you know don’t worship me.

You know some of this is implied as you read through this it’s a little different from what we typically get from most of the other book are being presented with in the Nag Hammadi. so you can see how these different influences impacting each other the proto Orthodox under Peter and the more Gnostic approach of Paul and then the early church fathers Valentina’s Irenaeus and how these all kind of clash with the different followers within those different sects.

Therefore, it is not possible for mind to conceive of him he was the perfection of that place nor can speech express them for they are ineffable and unnameable and inconceivable. They alone have the ability to name themselves and to conceive of themselves elevating the followers of God along almost at the level of Christ and the Father. For they have not been rooted in these places. those of that place are inevitable and innumerable in the system which is both the manner in the size the joy the gladness of the unbegotten nameless unnameable inconceivable invisible and comprehensible One is the fullness of the paternity. so that his abundance is a beginning of the Aeons. 

Again it’s just reiterating that from this writers perspective the Aeons followed after the church the Christ and God they were forever in thought for the Father was like a thought and a place for them. so it’s almost like he’s suggesting that the aeons were merely there to be part of carrying out the prime purpose which was to create humans and then everything else kind of served that and you know indirectly or directly. they were forever in thought for the Father was like a thought and a place for them. When their generations had been established the who is completely in control wish to lay hold of and to bring forth that which was deficient in the whatever and he brought forth those in blank him when their generations had been established. the one who is completely in control wish to lay hold of but since he is as he is he is a spring which is not diminished by the water which abundantly flows from him while they were in the Father’s thought that is in the hidden depth.

The depth knew them but they were unable to know the depth in which they were nor was it possible for them to know themselves nor for them to know anything else. that is they were with the Father they did not exist for themselves rather they only had existence in the manner of a seed so that it has been discovered that they existed like a fetus. 

it’s good this writers clarifying what he means that he’s saying the church in Christ were more seeds of thought you can think of it that way. not so much entities if that’s the case then I can say that’s a little more agreeable to The way I think Gnostic Christians might might think of a place that you’d put this in the whole puzzle.

 like the word he begat them subsisting spermaticlly. and the ones whom he was to beget had not yet come into being from him the one who first thought of them the Father not only so that they might exist for him but also that they might exist for themselves as well. That they might then exist in his thought as mental substance and that they might exist for themselves too so to thought like a spermatic seed. 1 Peter 1:23 1 John 3:9

1 Peter 1:23 For YOU have been given a new birth, not by corruptible, but by incorruptible [reproductive] seed (Greek spoas´; Latin., semine.), through the word of [the] living and enduring

1 John 3:9 Everyone who has been born from God does not carry on sin, because His [reproductive] seed (Greek 4690 spora) remains in such one, and he cannot practice sin, because he has been born from God. 

4701. σπορά spora spor-ah’; from 4687; a sowing, i.e. (by implication) parentage: —  seed. σπορά, σπορᾶς, ἡ (σπείρω, 2 perfect ἐσπορα), seed: 1 Peter 1:23((equivalent to a sowing, figuratively, origin, etc., from Aeschylus, Platodown))

4690. σπέρμα sperma sper’-mah; from 4687; something sown, i.e. seed (including the male "sperm"); by implication, offspring; specifically, a remnant (figuratively, as if kept over for planting): —  issue, seed.  

Now in order that they might know what exists for them he graciously granted the initial form. Wow in order that they might recognize who is the Father who exists for them gave them the name Father by means of a voice proclaiming to them that what exists. Exists through that name which they have by virtue of the fact that they came into being because the exultation which has escaped their notice is in the name alright. 

So the concept of the idea of a Father we all have a Father rather adopt him we know that Father or not or we were in a family where we’re not adopted the idea the concept of the Father is there and that experience allows us to know God the Father in heaven. so against the same concept that Christ came to represent the Father in name and so to all the Fathers here that we have on this earth representing in name the concept of the Father. so ultimately these are archetype here’s the Father so put in a name here’s God put in the name in this case would be Christ the infant while in the form of the fetus has enough for him itself before ever seeing the one who sewed it therefore they had the sole task of searching for him


Hebrews 12:23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God" (1 Jn. 5:1). Our spiritual man is what is born of God. All true believers are here spoken of as if they are their spiritual man. All true believers in Christ therefore have a spiritual man within them, which we must seek out, even imagine at times, and with which we should fellowship

Our spiritual man is not limited by the bonds of space. Thus Paul was bodily absent from Corinth, " but present in spirit" (1 Cor. 5:3), i.e. his spiritual man was present with them. It was the same with Colosse: " I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit" (Col. 2:5). When our spiritual man groans, Christ groans too in Heaven, an infinite distance away (Rom. 8:23 cp. 26). There is no time barrier, either. Thus our spiritual man is in close fellowship with " the spirits of just men made perfect" , having died many years ago (Heb. 12:23). This is the glorious unity of the Spirit; we are not just connected with all living saints, wherever they may be, but with the spiritual characters of all true saints throughout history.


The Trinity is just God's Family

The Mystically Afterlife

The Mystically Afterlife

There are two conceptions of afterlife: Metaphor and literal. After spiritual ego death, one's mortal corruptible self has been sacrificed and has died, and one is by definition in the afterlife, in the kingdom of god, ascended, beyond the last judgement.

This type of death and immortal life after death is certain and is the ultimate experience for which we have evidence. What about literal bodily death and some literalist type of eternal life in heaven? There's little support for it in Biblical scripture. Scripture lends itself more to the mystical, "awakening to the kingdom of god" approach, with "death" and "immortal life" is interpreted first mystically than we consider that eternal life is achieved through the resurrection of the body at the time of the second coming. The very same bodies that once constituted persons shall rise again, in order to be judged for the reward of immortal or eternal life in the kingdom of God or the second death .

The "mystery" of the scriptures is set up through deliberate, playful conflation of literal with mystical death. there is much more about the kingdom of god, than a future kingdom upon the earth and nothing about the traditional heavenly afterlife in the scriptures.

Mystically or spiritually it is certain that we are to awake to the newness of timeless life in the kingdom of God. This kind of eternal life is certain. Literal eternal life in heaven is an illusion entirely unfounded in the bible

The Mystically Afterlife is timeless rebirth after ego death.

There is also another literal eternal life which is also clearly shown to be a biblical teaching is bodily existence in the kingdom of god after the second coming resurrection and judgement of the dead