The Gnostic Redeemed Redeemer Not A Myth

 The Redeemed Redeemer 

or

The Gnostic Redeemer Myth

If anyone has read any books on Gnosticism they may of come a cross the term(s) redeemed redeemer or saved savior I find it strange that this called a myth by many scholars instead of a teaching in a belief system. I believe this is a doctrine not a myth we find this teaching in many Gnostic texts and in the Bible itself.   

Karen L. King writes in her book What is Gnosticism

Reitzenstein had argued that a key feature of the Gnostic redeemer myth was the shared identity of the savior with the saved....the term redeemed redeemer itself never appears in any primary text and its content was determined only by reference to the Gnostic salvation myth constructed by Reitzenstein, Bultmann, and Jonas. What is Gnosticism p 143

Speaking on hymn of the pear the acts of Thomas Hans Jonas writes: 

We can confidently take the King's Son to be the Savior, a definite divine figure, and not just the personification of the human soul in general. Yet this unique position does not prevent him from undergoing in his own person the full force of human destiny, even to the extent that he the savior himself has to be saved. Hans Jonas Gnostic Religion

Some quotes from the The Gnostic Bible

He who was redeemed redeemed the world. The Gnostic Bible p 282

You are saved in him who was saved. The Gnostic Bible 364

Speaking on hymn of the pear the acts of Thomas: 

The son has a double or twin role, for he appears to be both savior and the soul that he

saves; he saves and must himself be saved. The Gnostic Bible 387

In this allegory of redemption, as Hans Jonas points out, the savior himself must be saved—or rather, must save himself. The Gnostic Bible 387

Early Christian teaching on the saved savior or Redeemed Redeemer

the Odes of Solomon 

Ode 8

20) Pray and increase, and abide in the love of the Lord;
21) And the beloved ones in the Beloved, and those who are protected in Him Who liveth, and those who are saved in Him Who was saved.
22) And ye shall be found incorrupt in all ages, on account of the Name of your Father.

Ode 17


Then I was crowned by my God, and my crown was living.
And I was justified by my Lord, for my salvation is incorruptible.
I have been freed from vanities, and am not condemned.
My chains were cut off by His hands, I received the face and likeness of a new person, and I walked in Him and was saved.

Ode 42

17 And open for us the door by which we may come out to You; for we perceive that our death does not touch You.
18 May we also be saved with You, because You are our Savior.
19 Then I heard their voice, and placed their faith in my heart.
20 And I placed my name upon their head, because they are free and they are mine.
Hallelujah.

address of the Redeemed Redeemer with a Christological doxology

The Redeemed One becomes the Redeemer Michael Lattke The odes of Solomon 244

From this we can see that the Redeemed Redeemer refers to the savior who was saved from death

As I have said above this is not myth but a doctrine this teaching can be found in the Bible and the Nag Hammadi Library, the Odes of Solomon, the hymn of the pear in the acts of Thomas

The Redeemed Redeemer is not a myth but a doctrine or teaching. 

So why would Jesus need to be saved the bible answers this because of sin and death. His body was as unclean as the bodies of those for whom he died; for he was born of a woman, and "not one" can bring a clean body out of a defiled body; for "that", says Jesus himself, "which is born of the flesh is flesh" (John 3:6)

Sin, is an equivalent expression for human nature.

Jesus needed to be saved from human nature or sinful flesh

The first thing I think we should look at is identity does the savior of the Gnostic text have a shared identity with the saved

The Nag Hammadi Library text of Melchizedek:

Furthermore, they will say of him that he is unbegotten, though he has been begotten, (that) he does not eat, even though he eats, (that) he does not drink, even though he drinks, (that) he is uncircumcised, though he has been circumcised, (that) he is unfleshly, though he has come in the flesh, (that) he did not come to suffering, <though> he came to suffering, (that) he did not rise from the dead, <though> he arose from the dead. NHS p. 600

This is a remarkable passage, which speaks out about the false doctrine of doceticism (docetic heretics those who will deny the physical reality of Jesus's nature) 
and confirms orthodox teaching on life death and resurrection of Jesus. 

It also shows that Jesus had a shred identity with the saved he was circumcised he came in the flesh

The Gospel of Thomas saying 28

28 Jesus said: I stood in the midst of the world, and I appeared to them in the flesh. I found them all drunk; I found none of them thirsting, and my soul was afflicted for the sons of men; for they are blind in their heart, and they do not see that they came empty into the world, (and) empty they seek to leave the world again. But now they are drunk. When they have thrown off their wine, they will repent

Here Jesus came in the Flesh his soul was afflicted for the children of men.  
"I appeared to them in the flesh" is translated by LAYTON to read "I was shown forth incarnate" 

Incarnate means “having a bodily form.” ... The prefix in- means “in” and caro means “flesh,” so incarnate means “in the flesh.”

We should compare this saying with saying 101 to find out the meaning of the word flesh Jesus has 2 mother's his birth mother after the flesh and his true mother the holy spirit

The Gospel of Thomas saying 101

Jesus said, "Those who do not hate their [father] and their mother as I do cannot be [disciples] of me. And those who [do not] love their [father and] their mother as I do cannot be [disciples of] me. For my birth mother gave me [death.] But my true [mother] gave me life." April Deconick translation

Jesus's birth mother could only give him death which we understand to be our sinful nature. 

Here in saying 101 death is an equivalent expression for human nature or the flesh. So here again in the Gospel of Thomas we have Jesus the Savior identitied with those he came to save by birth and natural nature the flesh

 The Gospel of Philip:

Jesus revealed himself [at the] Jordan River as the fullness of the Kingdom of Heaven. He who was begotten before everything, was begotten anew. He who was once anointed, was anointed anew. He who was redeemed, in turn redeemed others.

In some Gnostic texts, the man Jesus is separate from the heavenly Christ (or Logos) which descended into him during his baptism in the Jordan.

This shows that the some gnostic groups understood that Jesus first needed redemption for himself before he could redeem those for whom he came to die for. Jesus is thus the redeemed redeemer coming in our sinful nature. The Savor himself was in need of redemption.

Why should Jesus be baptized?

By this act, then, Jesus associated himself openly with the sinners he came to save. By it he proclaimed the essential one-ness of his nature with theirs. He too needed this baptism, inasmuch as he also was a member of this fallen race needing redemption. It was an acknowledgement that the great truth taught by John: “all flesh is grass”, applied to him also. He needed the benefits of his own sacrifice. Now, as well as at the end of the days of his flesh, he was “numbered with the transgressors” (Is. 53: 12). Harry Whittaker, Studies in the Gospels

Jesus's sanctification started at his baptism and ended with his resurrection after his death on the cross:

Hence, in the First Apocryphon of James, Jesus says to James that, during the time of his crucifixion, his (Jesus’) redemption ‘will be near’. Jesus: “Behold, I shall reveal to you everything of this mystery. For they will seize me the day after tomorrow. But my redemption will be near.” (First Apocryphon of James)

Further light is thrown on these baptismal records by the Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs, where the anointing of the Messianic Priest-king is described in these terms : " The heavens shall be opened, and from the Temple of glory shall come upon him sanctification, with the Father's voice as from Abraham to Isaac. And the glory of the Most High shall be uttered over him, and the spirit of understanding and sanctification shall rest upon him  The quotation is from Test. Levi. xviii, 6-7 (Cf. Test. Judah xxiv, I-3,\rhich is to the same effect). The Testaments, according to Charles, date from the second century B.C Hugh j. Schonfield  according to the Hebrews  p245 

"And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the Truth” (Jno. 17:19).

The Master, according to himself, had to be sanctified in order to sanctify his brethren. The principles of his redemption laid down the foundation for ours, namely, the condemnation of sin in the flesh, and the declaration of the Righteousness of God. In him, God was declared Right to require the destruction of the diabolos through death, and we must seek to likewise crucify the flesh (Gal. 5:24), and die daily (1 Cor. 15:31) in our endeavours to seek first God’s kingdom and righteousness.

Each year on the Day of Atonement, the High Priest entered into the Holy of Holies, offering a sacrifice for himself first, and having been sanctified, he offered to the people. These two aspects foreshadowed the work of Messiah, for speaking of these things, the Apostle wrote:

“For such an high priest became us … who needeth not daily, as those high priests to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people’s: for this he did once when he offered up himself.” (Heb. 7:26, 27).

The Scriptures could hardly be more explicit: just as the High Priest offered for himself and then for the people, “this he did once …” when he offered up himself. Of course, Messiah had no committed sin to be forgiven for—but he did have the root cause of sin within himself. He was “the likeness of sinful flesh” (Rom. 8:3), as it is testified of him:

“… be ye reconciled to God. For he hath made him sin for us, who knew no sin: that we might be made the righteousness of God in him” (2 Cor. 5:21).

Every High Priest taken from among men ... for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity. And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins" (Heb. 5:1-3).

Heb 5:7  Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

Here we have Jesus the Savor who was saved from death this is the bibles teaching of a Saved Savor or Redeemed Redeemer who was saved from death.

The fact that Christ had to plead with God to save him from death rules out any possibility of him being God in person. After Christ's resurrection, death had "no more dominion over him" (Rom. 6:9), implying that beforehand it did.

The Redemption of Jesus is the Archetype for Redemption 

In the Tripartite Tractate, the Son (Jesus) is in need of redemption, because he had become a man. It is the heavenly Word which ‘descended upon him’ that offered him ‘redemption’: “Not only do humans need redemption, but also the angels, too... even the Son himself, who has the position of redeemer of the Totality, needed redemption as well - he who had become man - since he gave himself for each thing which we need, we in the flesh, who are his Church. Now, when he first received redemption from the word which had descended upon him, all the rest received redemption from him, namely those who had taken him to themselves.” (Tripartite Tractate)

The interpretation of Knowledge::

The man ... (11 lines missing)... this is the name. The [...] he emitted himself and he relinquished his majesty, taking scorn in exchange for  the name. for our sakes he endured the scorn. He appeared as flesh, and came as a provider.  He has no need of the glory that is not his; he has his own glory with the name, which is the Son. Now he came that we might become glorious through his humiliation as he dwelled in these humble places. And through him who was reproached we receive the forgiveness of sins. And through the one who was reproached and the one who was redeemed we receive grace.

The Nag Hammadi Library text of Melchizedek:

He included himself in the living offering, together with your offspring. He offered them up as an offering to the All. For it is not cattle that you will offer up for sin(s) of unbelief, and for the ignorances, and (for) all the wicked deeds which they will do NHS p. 601

"Such an High Priest became us ... who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's, for this he did once, when he offered up himself" (Heb. 7:26-27).

If Christ's offering did not comprehend himself how are we to understand the statement of Paul (in Heb 7:27)

The Jewish high priest had to make an offering firstly for his own sins, and then for those of the people (Heb. 5:1-3). Christ's sacrifice had this same two-fold structure. Although he did not have any sins personally, Jesus was still of human nature, and needed salvation from death. This salvation was provided by God on account of Christ's own sacrifice; thus Jesus died both to gain his own salvation, and also to make ours possible.

The Lord's sacrifice was necessary for his own redemption. His sacrifice was a public demonstration that his flesh was rightly related to death and a declaration of the righteousness of God that required the offering of his life in devotion to Him. By his sacrifice the ungodly propensities (diabolos) of his nature was destroyed (Heb. 2:14; 9:12; 7:27), thus providing for the granting of immortality.

Here this passage teaches that Christ the high  priest offered his own body for his own redemption He offered himself for himself and his brothers his offspring in the living offering that is his life as a living sacrifice

Now we come to the Gospel of Philip

78. The Lord was conceived (born again) from what is imperishable, from God. The [Lord arose] from among the dead. But [He did not come into being as he was. Rather [his body] was [completely] perfect. It was of flesh, and this [flesh is indeed] true flesh.¹ [Yet our flesh] is not true, but rather a mirror-image of the true [flesh]. (¹Jn 1:14, 20:27, II-Jn 7; NHS p. 174

This passage shows that the spiritual body is corporeal (tangible) and it has flesh and this flesh is true flesh, which is called spiritual flesh thus spiritual body but our flesh is only a shadow of the true like Adam who was only a type of him who was to come (Romans 5:14)

So before his resurrection from the dead Jesus had human flesh or human nature which is called in the text "our flesh is not true flesh" but after he arose from among the dead he had a new body imperishable, from God 

The Pleroma as a Place Psalm 89:11

The Pleroma as a Place Psalm 89:11

or

The Concept of the Pleroma Colossians 2:9

The Pleroma is a word used in the Bible it means fullness is a derivative of pleroo and pletho (“to fill, to make full”) 

“Pleroo is an extremely common verb in both NT and LXX. Its simple meaning is “fill”; eg “I am filled with comfort” (2Co 7:4). “The house was filled with the odour of the ointment” (John 12:3).

Pleroma, “fulness”, is associated with this imagery a good deal. “In him (Jesus) dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily” (Col 2:9). “The Word was made flesh, and tabernacled among us; and we beheld his glory....full of grace and truth...and of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace” (John 1:14,16; 

The Greek word for "fullness" is pleroma - the same word is also found in Col. 1:19, regarding how all God’s “fullness” dwelt in Jesus. Although the Lord Jesus had human nature, He never sinned; because He was full of the God’s personality and character. To know Jesus was to know God- for He was and is God’s Son, and indeed the perfect replica of Him in human form. 

Col 1:19  For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness <4138> dwell;

Col 2:9  For in him dwelleth all the fulness <4138> of the Godhead bodily.

John 3:34  For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

Jesus being filled with God's spirit or fullness refers to Jesus being filled with God's character and personality, as well as his divine power 

The fullness of the Deity the logos or the anointing spirit also known as the Divine Christ descended (Eph. 4:10) upon the man Jesus at his baptism, and at his crucifixion returned.

In The Nag Hammadi Library there is a text called The Letter of Peter to Philip in this document it has the Biblical understanding that the fullness/pleroma is manifested in Jesus. Jesus himself he says Concerning the fullness, it is I. 

The Letter of Peter to Philip:

“Concerning the fullness, it is I. I was sent down in the body for the seed that had fallen away. And I came down to their mortal model. But they did not recognize me, thinking I was a mortal. I spoke with the one who is mine, and the one who is mine listened to me just as you also who have listened to me today. And I gave him authority to enter into the inheritance of his fatherhood. And I took him . . . filled . . . through his salvation. Since he was deficiency, he became fullness.

The heavenly pleroma is [understood as] the centre of divine life, a region of light "above" our world...  The Christ is interpreted as an intermediary aeon who was sent from the pleroma.

According to this text the logos or anointing spirit is the Fullness which came down at the baptism to fill Jesus with all the fullness of the Deity

The Pleroma of God

The Pleroma of God or the fullness of God refers to his personality, character and divine nature. This divine nature can be described as Aeonian the word Aeon is used to described the divine nature and the place or abode were the Deity dwells see Isaiah 57:15

Isaiah 57:15  For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy: I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite.

Yahweh is residing in eternity or as the Septuagint rendering puts it dwelling (in) the aeon. This shows that aeon is the nature of the Yahweh and his dwelling place 

1tim 6:16  Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

heb 1:3  Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person (5287 ὑπόστασις hupostasis), and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

The Greek word hypostasis means substance and always refers to physical corporeal nature. 

God is corporeal because he has substance

2Pe 1:4  Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Col 1:19  For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness <4138> dwell;

Col 2:9  For in him dwelleth all the fulness <4138> of the Godhead bodily.

God has a substance it is his divine nature and power which is the fullness of his being, he is immortal dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen. 

The Pleroma as a Place 

In the Bible the word Pleroma is used to described the divine nature and substance of God (Col 1:19  Col 2:9) however it also used to describe places and things whatever fills the earth or is contained in it, 1 Corinthians 10:26, 28 (Psalm 23:1 Jeremiah 8:16; Ezekiel 12:19, Psalm 95:11  1 Chronicles 16:32); those things with which the baskets were filled, Mark 6:43 the filling by which a gap is filled up, Matthew 9:16; Mark 2:21 fullness = that which fills, entire contents,

If you where to ask someone what is heaven like they would not be able to describe it.  The best way to describe heaven would be to describe it as the fullness of God's glory or the fullness of God's presence. 

This is how the word fullness was used by the Gnostics to describe the invisible heavens a place full of divine beings filled with the divine nature, glory and power of the Uncreated Eternal Spirit

It is the spirit-world, a world perceptible only by the intellect however it is not a incorporeal world. 

psa 89:11  Thine are the heavens — the earth also is Thine, The habitable world and its fulness, Thou hast founded them.

psa 89:11 Heaven is yours, the earth also is yours;

The productive land and what fills it—you yourself have founded them.

The heavens to the earth the world and the fullness you have founded

There is no distinction here of the word fullness between heaven, earth and the world each one has its fullness. the fullness of the heaven of heavens is its entire contents they are the work of his hands, and the seat of his majesty, and the throne of his glory; the angels of heaven are his, his creatures and servants; a court of celestial beings

Compare Psalm 112:4-6 LXX 

4  (112:4) The Lord is high above all the nations; his glory is above the heavens.

5  (112:5) Who is as the Lord our God? who dwells in the high places,

6 (112:6) and [yet] looks upon the low things in heaven, and on the earth:

Compare Psalm 112:5 LXX 5 (112:5) Who is as the Lord our God? who dwells in the high places, the summits or hills literally the heights of the Most High define the space of his pleroma

There is a third signification (of place), in keeping with which God Himself is called a place, by reason of His containing all things and being contained by nothing whatever, and being a place for all to flee into, and because He is Himself the space which holds Him; for He is that which He Himself has occupied, and nought encloses Him but Himself. I, mark you, am not a place but in a place and each thing likewise that exists; for that which is contained is different from that which contains it, and the Deity, being contained by nothing, is of necessity Itself Its own place Philo, De Somniis, I, xi, 63-64. Likewise, see De Migrations AbraEami, xxxii, 181-182; xxxv, 192>; De ConTusione Lingu'arum, xxvii, 136; and Legum Allegoria, I, xiv, 44.

Here there is a spatial sense to the pleroma

Like Psalm 89:11 and Psalm 112 Genesis chapter 1 also speaks about God establish the heavens 

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth (the entire universe).
Gen 1:1 ¶  In the beginning of God’s preparing (The verb does not necessarily describe creation out of nothing) the heavens and the earth — 

We learn Genesis 1:1 that God exists outside of time and God existed before the creation of heavens and the earth

The heavenly places or the spiritual heavens (pleroma) is the waters above the firmament (outer-space) which is likened to a spread-out curtain.

These spiritual heavens are where Christ sits far above all heavens (Eph. 4:10), that is, far above the physical heavens called outer-space or the firmament which is the limit or boundary.

The Spiritual Heavens are called the Aeon Pleroma

The Pleroma in Gnostic Text

The Pleroma is sometimes compared by allegory to a city, temple tree, and body

The Heavens or the Pleroma did not always exist it was produced and formed by the Eternal Spirit this we call the emanation.
(He created the holy Pleroma in this way. . .The Untitled Text in the Bruce Codex)

The Pleroma is also called the ‘emanations of the Father “Therefore, all the emanations of the Father are pleromas, and the root of all his emanations is in the one who made them all grow up in himself.” (Gospel of Truth)

In the Untitled Bruce Codex ms, the Pleroma is described as a temple-city with four gates and a Holy of Holies: “He created the holy Pleroma in this way: four gates with four monads within it, one monad to each gate and six helpers (parastatai) to each gate, ... and an unutterable aspect - to each gate. One of his aspects looks forth from the gate to the outer aeons, the other looks inwards to the Setheus, and the other looks to the height, and the sonship is in each monad. ... The unutterable aspect of the overseer looks towards to the holy of the holies, that is, the infinite one who is the head of the sanctuary.” (Untitled Text in the Bruce Codex)

- The Untitled Text in the Bruce Codex also describes the Pleroma as ‘the body’ of the monad, which is like the mother-city “This is the manner in which they are all within the monad : there are twelve monads making a crown upon its head ; each one makes twelve. And there are ten decads surrounding its shoulders. And there are nine enneads surrounding its belly. And there are seven hebdomads at its feet, and each one makes a hebdomad. And to the veil which surrounds it like a tower, there are twelve gates. There are twelve myriad powers at each gate, and they are called archangels and also angels. This is the mother-city of the only-begotten one.” (Untitled Text in the Bruce Codex)

- As the ‘immeasurable deep’: “After these things there is another place which is broad, having hidden within it a great wealth which supplies the All. This is the immeasurable deep.” (Untitled Text in the Bruce Codex)

- One may also ‘become full’: “Become full, and leave no space within you empty.” (Apocalypse of James)

Summary

First of all the Pleroma did not always exist it was produced and formed by the Eternal Spirit this we call the emanation. (He created the holy Pleroma in this way The Untitled Text in the Bruce Codex)

The word Pleroma means "fullness". It refers to all existence beyond visible universe. In other words it is the world of the Aeons, the heavens or spiritual universe.

Bythos is the spiritual source of everything which emanates the pleroma,

The Pleroma is both the abode of and the essential nature of the True Ultimate Deity or Bythos.

The Pleroma as well as being the the dwellings place of the Aeons is also a a state of consciousness

The Pleroma is both a state of consciousness (the Ideas in the Divine Mind) and the dwellings place of the Aeons

As a state of consciousness the pleroma is the fullness of the Divine attributes. the various means by which God reveals Himself: it is the totality of the thirty aeons or emanations which proceed from God they are aspects of the divine mind

The word aeon means temporal sometimes a spatial concept in addition it is also used for personal beings whether divine or mortal.

Christ pre-existed but Jesus didn't John 1:1-4

Christ pre-existed but Jesus didn't John 1:1-4

In contrast to orthodox Christians, Valentinians did not believe that Christ was joined to Jesus at his birth. Instead, they insisted that Christ became joined to Jesus only at the beginning of his ministry i.e. at his baptism. The dove which descends upon Jesus at the baptism was understtod as Christ descending on Jesus and joining with him (Irenaeus Against Heresies 1:7:2, 1:15:3, 3:16:1, 3:10:3, Excerpts of Theodotus 61:6,26:1 Hippolytus Refutation 6:35:3). Christ is "the Name which came down upon Jesus in the dove and redeemed him" (Excerpts of Theodotus 22:6 cf. Gospel of Philip 70:34-36).Jesus was anointed with the Spirit of God at his baptism in the Jordan.

In the beginning was the LOGOS - (the outward manifestation of the inward thought)

the LOGOS WAS with God. (Yahweh and His Divine Plan could not be separated)
the LOGOS was God - (God and the Logos are one).

Christ, the Word, who “in the beginning laid the foundations of the earth,” therefore pre-existed before the birth of “the body prepared” of the substance of Mary, and which lay dead in the tomb. That body named Jesus, had no existence until developed by the Christ-Power. Federally, indeed, it pre-existed in the loins of Abraham and in Adam, as Levi was in Abraham, and we in Adam, before birth; but not otherwise. (On the Nature of Christ February 22nd, 1867 by Eusebia J. Lasius)

The pre-existent Christ, or Deity, was not the less Deity because he veiled himself in flesh, in our “sinful flesh,” or “sin’s flesh,” and styled himself JESUS, or he who shall be Saviour. (Dr. Thomas letter to Robert Robert July 17th, 1869)

In reference to those words of Jesus, saying,—“The bread I give for the life of the world is my flesh” (John 6.) For the bread of the Deity is He, who descending out of the heaven, and giveth life to the world.’ This was as much as to say, that the manna was representative of a life-imparting agent from heaven: even the Logos speaking by Jesus. ‘In him’—the Logos, ‘was Life,’ says John ‘and the Life, was the light of men.’ It was this Logos who said, ‘I am the Way and the Truth; the Resurrection and the Life’: ‘I am the Bread of Life,’ or the manna: ‘I came down from heaven’: this is the bread which descendeth from heaven, that a man may eat thereof and not die’ . . . ‘If any man eat of this bread he shall live in the age: and the bread that I (the Logos) will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. (Eureka -- Vol 1 -- Chap 2 -- Sec 3: 8. The Hidden Manna)

Jesus was not literally the Word. He was the word "made flesh". (John:14). Jesus is the complete manifestation of the logos - "in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Deity bodily." (Col. 2:9). It was the "logos" which was in the beginning with God, not Jesus. When the "word was made flesh" (John 1:14) then, and then only, Jesus became the "Word".
Jesus is called the Word (Rev. 19:13 cf. 1 John 1:1; Luke 1:2) since his doctrine and words came from his Father (John 7:16; 17:14). He was the logos lived out in speech and action, not merely written on scrolls. (wrested scriptures)

Jesus Christ in the day of his weakness, had two sides—the one, DEITY; the other, MAN—the Eternal Christ-Power or the anointing spirit veiled in, and manifested through the flesh created from the ground; which flesh had Willfully transgressed the Divine Law, the penalty of which sent it back into the dust from whence it came. This is Jesus Christ the true Deity, whom to know is life eternal. (Dr. Thomas letter to Robert Robert July 17th, 1869)

This flesh which inhabited Paradise, like all the beasts. Was “very good” of its sort, is described as “sin” and “sin’s flesh,” because it sinned or transgressed the Eden law. Our flesh is the same as Adam’s before he sinned, only the worse for wear: for Paul says that we sinned in him, and he was sinless before he sinned; and we were as much in his loins when he was sinless, as in the act of sinning. His flesh undefiled by sin is constitutionally the same as the flesh of his posterity defiled legally thereby. The Christ-Deity veiled himself in the Adamic nature defiled by sin, in order that he might condemn sin in the flesh and to condemn sin to death in the nature which, although created “very good,” had legally defiled itself by transgression of the Eden law. This purpose would have been defeated if he had veiled himself in a clean nature. (Dr. Thomas letter to Robert Robert July 17th, 1869)

To say that the Man, Jesus, was corporeally clean, or pure, holy, spotless, and undefiled, is in effect to say that he was not “made of a woman;” for Scripture teaches, that nothing born of woman can possibly be clean: but it is testified that he was “born of a woman;” he must therefore necessarily have been born corporeally unclean. Hence, it is written of him in Psalm 51:5, “I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.” He therefore prays, “Purge me with sop and I shall be clean; wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.” This prayer has been answered, and he has been “Washed thoroughly from his (corporeal) iniquity, and cleansed from his sin;” so that now he has a clean nature, which is spirit and divine—“the Lord the Spirit”—once dead as to flesh, but now alive as Spirit for evermore.—(Rev. 1:18.) (Dr. Thomas letter to Robert Robert July 17th, 1869)

I believe that Christ pre-existed but Jesus didn't. It may sound complicated but it isn't really.

It's about God Manifestation - ultimately the angels the "focalisations of the Spirit", Jesus Christ and the Saints are all manifestations of God (which is why Jesus says "does it not say in your law Ye are gods?").

The exhortation is that we need to behave like that now, while we are in the flesh, because once the flesh is removed we will only be as much Spirit as has been developed in us.

Gnosis And Intuition Philippians 1:9

Gnosis And Intuition Philippians 1:9

Intuition is like a tutor that teaches you from within

Philippians 1:9 ¶  And, this, I pray--that, your love, may be, yet more and more, pre-eminent in personal knowledge and all perception, (Rotherham's Emphasized Bible)

The World Book Encyclopedia says: “Some people incorrectly call intuition ‘intuitions are based on experience, particularly the experience of individuals with great sensitivity.” The individual builds up “a storehouse of memories and impressions,” the Encyclopedia argues, from which the mind may draw a “sudden impression [called] an intuition, or ‘hunch.’”

intuition--The natural knowing capacity.

spiritual intuition Inner knowing; the immediate apprehension of spiritual Truth

I would define intuition from a biblical perspective as “being led by Holy Spirit.” the holy spirit leads God’s people today.  Gal 5:16, 18

Being led by the Spirit is only available to those who have a relationship with Jesus Christ as sons and daughters of God (Rom 8:14; Joh 3:5-8; 2Co 1:21, 22).

to know intuitively

Biblical Intuition is linked to the spirit or the mind not the heart

For example, Jesus “knew” or “perceived” the hearts and intentions of others (Matt 22:18). 

18  But Jesus perceived <1097> (5631) their wickedness, and said Why tempt ye me, [ye] hypocrites?

Ro 7:7  What shall we say then? [Is] the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had <1097> not known <1097> sin, but by the law: for I had <1492> not known <1492> lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

intuitive knowledge apart from experience

Many times in the New Testament two Greek words are used together 1097. γινώσκω ginosko and 1492. εἴδω eido

The Greek word 1097 is defined as to know experientially as contrasted to oia or eido 1492 which means to know intuitively to perceive with the outward senses particularly with physical sight

The Greek word 1097 γινώσκω ginosko signifies objective knowledge, what a man has learned or acquired.

oida, which signifies "to know (intuitively) without effort; to understand subjectively" (Bullinger); thus to appreciate as a theory.

The English expression ‘being acquainted with’ perhaps conveys the meaning. Oἶδα/Oida conveys the thought of what is inward, the inward consciousness in the mind, intuitive knowledge not immediately derived from what is external.

Abbott-Smith wrote: γινώσκω, to know by observation and experience is thus prop. distinguished from οἶδα, to know by reflection (a mental process, based on intuition or information)

discernment

.Another word that could be used for intuition is having discernment (Phil 1:9). 

Philippians 1:9 ¶  And, this, I pray--that, your love, may be, yet more and more, pre-eminent in personal knowledge and all perception, (Rotherham's Emphasized Bible)

Philippians 1:9 And this is what I continue praying, that YOUR love may abound yet more and more with accurate knowledge and full discernment (NWT)

discernment Lit., “sense perception.” Greek., aisthesei; Latin., sensu. 

144. αἴσθησις aisthesis [ah’-ee-sthay-sis]; from 143; perception, i.e. (figuratively) discernment: —  judgment. 

143. αἰσθάνομαι aisthanomai [ahee-sthan’-om-ahee]; of uncertain derivation; to apprehend (properly, by the senses): —  perceive.

145 αἰσθητήριον aistheterion [ahee-sthay-tay’-ree-on]  from a derivative of 143; n n; TDNT-1:187,29;  [{See TDNT 36 }] a faculty of the mind for perceiving, understanding, judging

Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, [even] those who by reason of use have their senses <145> exercised to discern both good and evil.

knowledge and Intuition

Proverbs 14:6 The ridiculer has sought to find wisdom, and there is none; but to the understanding one knowledge is an easy thing.

 Jn. 7:17 is relevant here: "If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know of this teaching, whether it is of God, or I speak from myself". He who wishes above all things to live God's life, to have His Spirit, to live the life eternal with Him... they will intuitively know whether the Lord's doctrine is right or not. This intuitive element is in fact what leads to faith in the first place. There is a strong tendency to talk this down, and assume that it is by intellectual process that a person decides what is true or otherwise. But all appeal to intellectual process alone to decide 'truth' is flawed. For we are talking of spiritual things and not material. And legitimate intellectual process varies between persons. They may come to different conclusions about the same teaching which they analyze. And some are far more capable of intellectual analysis than others. There has to be something beyond intellectual process to decide truth. Here the Lord expresses this as a willing to do God's will, a heart for God, a desire for eternity. In a word, we must be open to the things of the Spirit. And then, the teachings make sense and there is an intuitive congruence between them and our own spirit. (Proverbs: New European Christadelphian by Duncan Heaster)

We need to make it clear that we do not think that if people acquire all intellectual knowledge they will have knowledge of God. Knowing God is about having a relationship with Him based upon that knowledge, not just knowing facts about Him. True spiritual knowledge gnosis or acquaintance a knowledge of a realm far superior to intellectual knowledge. However, whilst we agree that we cannot make knowledge of God a function of the intellect, we also have to show our disagreement with the perspective that the intellect can only know about God, it is incapable of knowing God.

And in this consists the Life of the Ages--in knowing Thee the only true God and Jesus Christ whom Thou hast sent.

It is possible to know God- you can find many Bible verses that say so. And the issue of that knowledge is in a life lived with Him.

There has to be an element of passion and emotion in our appeal. The doctrines must have meaning in practice; If a man is not emotionally moved by the truth, he is not of the truth”.

It is not enough to be acquainted with the texts and to know how to draw from them quotes and arguments. One must possess the spiritual knowledge of the Father from within.

Intuition is perhaps more important for this than intellectual knowledge, for intuition alone revives their writings and makes them a witness. It is only from within that we can perceive and distinguish what (actually) is the truth


But on the other hand, we have to make the point, that we can’t just let our feelings / intuition guide us alone; or else we will end up believing whatever we ‘feel’ is right. We will have become the authority... and as we must constantly stress, the Bible alone is to be our authority.

Gnosis

Gospel of Thomas Saying (3) Jesus said, "[If] those who lead you [say to you, 'See], the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky [will precede you. If they say that] it is under the earth, then the fish of the sea [will enter it, preceding] you. And, the [kingdom of God] is inside of you, [and it is outside of you. Whoever] knows [himself] will discover this, (then you will be known). [And when you] come to know yourselves, [you will realise that] you are [sons] of the [living] father. [But if you] will [not] know yourselves, [you dwell] in [poverty] and it is you who are that poverty."

So know yourself, and be not carried away with impulses and desires beyond your power; and let not a desire of unattainable objects carry you away and keep you in suspense. For you shall not lack anything which may be possessed by you." (Philo of Alexandria)

Come, and at once abandoning all other things, learn to know yourselves, and tell us plainly what ye yourselves are in respect of your bodies, in respect of your souls, in respect of your external senses, and in respect of your reason. (Philo of Alexandria)

learn to be acquainted with the country of the external senses; know thyself and thy own parts, and what each is, and for what end it was made, and how it is by nature calculated to energise, and who it is who moves through those marvellous things, and pulls the strings, being himself invisible, in an invisible manner, whether it is the mind that is in thee, or the mind of the universe (Philo of Alexandria)

Renewed by Accurate Knowledge Colossians 3:10

Renewed by Accurate Knowledge 

or 

Salvation by Accurate Knowledge

Colossians 3:10

Strip off the old personality with its practices, 10 and clothe yourselves with the new personality, that is being renewed through accurate knowledge according to the image of the One who created it”​—Col. 3:9, 10

Salvation by knowledge is a general principle of absolute truth

Some Gnostics believed that in order to acquire salvation one must possess a certain knowledge, or gnosis, which must be interpreted from the sayings of Jesus

Gospel of Thomas Saying 1 And he said, "Whoever finds the correct interpretation of these sayings will never die." Translated by Stevan Davies

Now, what is faith? It is the express approval of the mind to definite points of information. Before faith can take place, the mind must be informed; that  is, it must first know or be aware of the subject of faith. Hence, knowledge  (though only in the limited sense of information) is the foundation of faith.

Exercising Faith in the Lord Jesus, and believing the gospel, are exactly the same thing; for the gospel is made up of glad tidings concerning the Lord Jesus Christ: and if a man believe the gospel, he believes on the Lord Jesus Christ. If he is ignorant of the gospel, he cannot exercise Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, for "the Lord Jesus Christ" is not the mere name of the Saviour as a personage, but a grand doctrinal symbol, which can only be understood by those who are acquainted with the gospel in its full extent.

The first thing a person has to do, then, in order to gain salvation, is to exercise faith in the gospel. To do this he must know the gospel, for as Paul says, "How shall they put faith in him of whom they have not heard"? (Rom. 10:14). Knowledge must always precede faith; for a person cannot put faith in that of which he has not previously been informed.

Hence, the first inquiry on the part of a person anxious to be saved will be, WHAT IS THE GOSPEL? Until they know this, they cannot go on to the second stage of "faith unto salvation" ready to be revealed in the last time.
The gospel is styled "the one faith," because it is made up of things which require faith to receive them - the act of the mind by which these things are comprehended.

It is laid down as a principle, "Without faith IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE GOD" (Heb. 11:6), and it is affirmed of believers, "Ye are saved through faith" (Eph. 2:8), and " the just shall live by faith," (Heb. 10:38). Now this faith, in scriptural usage, is not a mere abstract reliance on the power of Yahweh, but the confidence of specific promise. It is said that "faith was imputed to Abraham for righteousness" (Rom. 4:9). Now let us note the character of this righteousness acquiring faith:-

20 But because of the promise of God he did not waver in a lack of faith, but became powerful by his faith, giving God glory 21 and being fully convinced that what he had promised he was also able to do. 22 Hence “it was counted to him as righteousness (Rom. 4:20, 21). (Christendom Astray from the Bible by Robert Roberts)

You may say : But the Bible says, we are saved by “the renewing of the Holy Spirit” (Titus 3:5).

It also says, we are renewed by knowledge” (Col. 3:10). In this, however, it does not contradict its self, but rather makes the one phrase explanatory of the other; as if he had said, “we are renewed by the Holy Spirit through knowledge.” The Holy Spirit renews or regenerates a person intellectually and morally by putting faith in the truth. “Sanctify them by thy truth,” says Jesus; “thy word, O Father, is truth” (John 17:17).

“Ye are clean,” said he to his apostles, “through the word which I have spoken to you” (John 15:3). God’s power is manifested through agencies. His Spirit is His power by which He effects intellectual, moral, and physical results. When He wills to produce intellectual and moral effects, it is by knowledge revealed by His Spirit through the prophets and apostles.

This knowledge becomes power when received into “good and honest hearts”; and because God is the author of it, it is styled “the Knowledge of God” (2 Pet. 1:2), or “the word of truth” (James 1:18), by which He begets sinners to Himself as His sons and daughters. “The word of the truth of the gospel,”" the gospel of the kingdom.” “the incorruptible seed,” “the word,” “the truth as it is in Jesus,”" the word of the kingdom,”" the word of reconciliation,” “the law and the testimony,” “the word of faith,” “the sword of the spirit which is the word of God,” “the word of Christ,” “the perfection of liberty,” etc.-are all phrases richly demonstrating "the power of God” by which He saves His people from their sins, and translates them into the Hope of the kingdom and glory to which He invites them. The truth is the power that makes men free indeed (John 8:32, 36).

Hence Jesus says, “My words are spirit, and they are life.” The prophets, Jesus, and the apostles were the channels through which it was transmitted to mankind; and the spirit the agent by which the knowledge was conveyed to them. Hence, the knowledge or the truth being suggested to the prophets by the spirit is sometimes styled “the spirit” (Rom. 2:20). 

The spirit is to the truth as cause and effect; and by a very common figure of speech, the one is put for the other in speaking of them relatively to the mind and heart of man. So that the phrase “renewed by the holy spirit” is equivalent to renewed by putting faith in the truth testified by the Holy Spirit (John 15:26: 14:13-14).(Clerical Theology Unscriptural by Dr. John Thomas)

Paul also prayed that ones in the Colossian congregation, who obviously had some knowledge of God’s will, for they had become Christians, “be filled with the accurate knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual comprehension.” (Col 1:9) Such accurate knowledge should be sought by all Christians (Eph 1:15-17; Php 1:9; 1Ti 2:3, 4), it being important in putting on “the new personality” and in gaining peace.—Col 3:10; 2Pe 1:2.

Is it possible to come to a knowledge of the truth without applying it in our daily life? Quite possible. Such knowledge however is only an academic knowledge, the heart being left unenlightened. To be “where Christ is” is to be one with Christ and therefore to be about the Father's business.

How do we come to know God, the good? This knowledge comes as we learn to express active goodness. Praise, thanksgiving, loving-kindness, and faithfulness, each in degree reveals God to us as we give it active expression.

Col 3:10 And have put on the new self, which is being renewed in accurate knowledge after the image of its creator- Because in status we have 'put on the new man', "put on, therefore... mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind", i.e. bring forth in yourself the characteristics of Jesus, seeing you have 'put Him on' in baptism (Col. 3:10,12). Clothe your personality with Him, submerge yourself within Him, seeing you 'put on' Christ in baptism. We are to live out in practice how the Lord sees us by status.

Do religions ceremonies, or sacred locations have power to make God known to us? These things are unknown in scriptural teaching. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and truth. Jesus was instructing the woman at the well concerning the only locality where God can be contacted by the mind of man; that locality is within one's own soul. Jesus said, "The kingdom of God is within you." which is Christ in you, the hope of glory